0:02

Hi, I'm Kristen with an E, and this is Talk with Kristen with an E, a place to slow down, be honest without having all the answers, and feel a little less alone together. Let's talk it out.

Kristen 0:20

Hey, everybody. Welcome back. I am so excited for this episode because, as you can see, we have a new guest here. She's not a new friend. She's been a friend for a while, but a new guest that I have been trying to get on the podcast for a very long time. So, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce you to Mary. Hi, Mary. Hey,

Mary 0:42

everybody.

Kristen 0:42

Oh my gosh, how long have we been trying to get this set up?

Mary 0:45

I mean, how long... When you started doing it- That's right and

Kristen 0:47

you

Mary 0:48

asked me out- As soon as I

Kristen 0:48

started

Mary 0:49

I kind of did the, "What? You wanna... What? No. Me?

Kristen 0:51

I know, and then I kept peer pressuring you, and I'm like, "Mary, I'd really like you to be on the podcast," and you're like, "I don't know. maybe. and then I finally got you to say yes, but then scheduling is really hard, but- Yeah the stars have aligned- Yeah and we are here.

Mary 1:04

Well, we're both busy people.

Kristen 1:05

We are busy people.

Mary 1:07

Yeah. Busy. Momming.

Kristen 1:08

So before we get into today's topic, let's talk briefly about who you are-

Mary 1:13

Okay

Kristen 1:13

and maybe how we know each other, if you wanna talk about that, too. So give me a brief introduction of who Mary is.

Mary 1:19

I am a wife, mom, teacher, coach, liver of life, I guess. I'm almost... Am I supposed to talk about my age? Can I do that?

Kristen 1:29

You can. Whatever you're comfortable with.

Mary 1:30

I'm very comfortable with that. People always say, "You're not supposed to a- ask a woman their age," and I'm like, "Eh, it's just a number." I'm rapidly approaching 50. I'll be 50 next month.

Kristen 1:38

Are you excited?

Mary 1:40

I am excited. But the only bittersweet thing about my birthday is that it comes at the end of summer.

Kristen 1:45

Oh.

Mary 1:46

And then I know it's back to the grind, you know, not too long after that. But, usually my, my family ends up, on vacation right around that time because it falls-

Kristen 1:54

big beach vacation?

Mary 1:55

Yeah, it usually falls around the August dead week. And I am a mom of children who are active in sports and- school, and so, when your kids do that sort of thing, the school tells you when you can- take your vacations. So we go during the August dead week and enjoy ourselves at the beach. And so I, I'd love to explore more of the United States, but I like being able to disconnect when I'm there. So I, that's why I enjoy going there, and we go with some friends of ours. So, but yeah, I'm a mom to three kids. I've been married for, gosh, 22 years this summer. Yeah, so, but my husband and I have been... We've known each other for 26 years, so.

Kristen 2:30

That's a long time. It is.

Mary 2:32

More than half our age, so m- I mean, maybe. But yeah, I, I've been a teacher for 27 years.

Kristen 2:39

Okay, so just a little bit longer than you've known him.

Mary 2:41

Yep. I taught for one year before I met him. Well, My parents are 84, and they have been married for over 60 years, so.

Kristen 2:47

Really? Then I need your mom and dad to be here.

Mary 2:51

Wow, that's a little tricky.

Speaker 2:53

We can

Kristen 2:53

can do it virtually. We'll get them set up, and we'll be like, "Hi, Mary's mom and dad. I'm Kristin."

Mary 3:00

They would be super cute. I would love to hear what they would have to say.

Kristen 3:04

That'd be fun. We'll see if we can get it set up sometime.

Mary 3:05

They've raised seven kids, and they've done a good job. Wow. 'Cause I feel like all of my siblings,

Speaker 2 3:10

We're

Mary 3:10

We're all, we've, we've, we- I don't know, not huge success. We're not, like, working on Wall Street, but successful in life.

Kristen 3:16

Yeah. Well, I would say that being a teacher is successful because you're training the next generation- to be good humans.

Mary 3:23

You know, the funny thing is, growing up, my dad always kind of complained about school teachers. he kind of grumbled about them.

Kristen 3:28

Really?

Mary 3:28

And four of his seven children became school teachers.

Kristen 3:32

That's funny. And,

Mary 3:32

and one of my sisters, she didn't stay in the profession, but she definitely uses her education background in what she does now.

Kristen 3:38

Okay.

Mary 3:38

So, but it's just funny to me. It's a little bit humorous- Yes 'cause I remember that vividly as a child, him complaining about school teachers and, and, more than half his kids became

Kristen 3:47

That's hilarious. My dad's thing wasn't teachers. It was politicians and lawyers. He'd be like, "Don't be a politician or lawyer. Just a bunch of liars. They're the scum of the earth." No offense to lawyers or politicians anywhere. But, like, that was my dad's thing, so I did not go to law school. Not that I wanted to. I mean, there was that brief moment, because of Legally Blonde and I wanted to be Elle Woods, that I considered it.

Mary 4:08

everybody?

Kristen 4:08

Although people said I should've been a teacher growing up, too, and that's partly why I didn't go into education, because I felt so pressured. Like people were like, "Oh, Kristen, you'd be such a great teacher. Oh, Kristen, you should be a teacher." I'm like, "I'm not gonna be a teacher because all you people are telling me to be a teacher."

Mary 4:22

Yeah.

Kristen 4:22

So I did, I did not be

Mary 4:23

a teacher. You had to go against the grain a little bit.

Kristen 4:25

Yeah. I was like, "Screw all of you. I'm making path for myself."

Mary 4:28

That's okay. I think we all have a little bit of that opposition, I'm gonna do my own thing-

Kristen 4:32

We do somewhere. We

Mary 4:33

do. And sometimes it shows itself, and sometimes it doesn't.

Kristen 4:36

Yes.

Mary 4:36

So there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with the very obedient person either. Like, sometimes I think about, you know, what we're gonna talk about, the women in my life and how they shaped me. Were they the more oppositional and like, "Mm, mm, mm,"- Yeah hand on their hips, kind of, "No, you're not gonna tell me what to do"? Or were they, "Yes, I can do that for you," and yeah. Yeah. I thought a lot about that the past few weeks as we-

Kristen 4:57

You have.

Mary 4:58

Yeah.

Kristen 4:58

Well, that's fantastic. That's a great segue. So we'll get into the topic. Okay. So today, I am building on this confidence series, and, it's actually when Mary was like, "Well, if I'm, if I go on your podcast, what am I gonna talk about?" And I told her that I thought confidence would be so good because it's something that I am working on. I think a lot of us, especially as we get later in life, it's almost a, a time to rebrand and redevelop yourself and maybe develop some of the confidence that you didn't have in your younger day. Because, you know- Mm-hmm you said you're nearing 50, and even me, I think I'm still early 30s, 'cause I'm gonna be 43, which I still as- feel is on the early 40s side.

Mary 5:33

yeah.

Kristen 5:34

I feel like I care less about what other people think. Yes. I'm really working on that. But being able to let go of some of the people-pleasing has kind of helped improve my confidence, too. So I told Mary, like, "Hey, I want you to talk about your confidence journey, and also because you mention you're a teacher and a dance coach, and I think how you instill confidence in younger people, so maybe- they don't have to go through all the struggles or same struggles we went through, I think is huge. Yeah. So why don't we start by just talking about Mary as a younger person? Like, what were you like growing up, and was confidence something that came natural to you? Or, like, just tell me about what you were like back then.

Mary 6:15

definitely not very confident when I was younger.

Speaker 2 6:18

I

Mary 6:18

I think we all have those insecurities- about the way we look, and I think mine probably stemmed from that. but also it's not that I lacked confidence, but when you're one kiddo in a big family, like-

Kristen 6:29

Mm

Mary 6:30

there's a lot going on. There was always a lot going on in my household. Like, I'm not mad or sad about it. It's just the way it was. Like-

Speaker 2 6:37

I

Mary 6:37

don't wanna say you got forgotten about, but I was one of the younger kiddos, and so I can remember going to my siblings', football game for my brother or stuff like that, going to watch my siblings do their stuff. Or even if they were getting ready for a sweetheart dance or a prom, like everybody- Yeah was always there to see pictures like everything was a big deal. Like, I can remember taking my oldest brother off to college. I remember when we moved him into Mizzou and all that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. Like, I vividly remember that, and I was probably five or six when he went away to college. Oh, wow. Yeah, there's a big age gap between us all. But, you know, by the time it was time for me to be in high school, do sports, there wasn't anybody around.

Kristen 7:13

Right.

Mary 7:14

Cause they were all grown and married with kids and living their own lives.

Kristen 7:17

probably had families of their own at that point.

Mary 7:18

And we were all very scattered around. Mm-hmm. We, my family lived in Colorado when I was a kiddo. when I was 10 we moved there. My dad's job did. And so my siblings, I had sisters that were married to service members, and so they were, some were deployed. They were, one lived in England for a while. Oh, wow. When I say we were spread out, we were very, very spread out. Yeah. And so, and that's okay. there's nothing wrong with that. It just, my younger days as a child look very different than when I was a teenager. Mm-hmm. so it's not that I lack that confidence, but I just remember like, I don't know, kids when I... I grew up in the '80s, and I went to high school in the '90s. And so, you know, kids just said stuff. "Hey, your ears are big," or, "Hey, you look funny." Or, you know, like, they just said things without having- a filter. and kids probably still do that today. I can tell you from being in a classroom, they still have that filter and we try to teach them, "Hey, let's think about what we say before we say it." so I think I probably lacked confidence 'cause I was worried about physical features-

Kristen 8:12

Yeah

Mary 8:12

but as I've gotten older, just like you kind of touched on, like, I don't, I don't stress over those things, and I've learned to just love what God gave me. Like- Mm-hmm there's plenty of imperfections in my body today even, you know. There always is. None of us are made perfectly. But, I've learned to love what, what I was given. Mm-hmm. but I think part of my confidence grew, 'cause I w- I was in a relationship in college. it was not my husband. It was a, a boy I dated for, like, three years, and I always felt like I wasn't pretty enough for him.

Kristen 8:44

Really?

Mary 8:45

Yeah. Just the comments he would make He never told me I was ugly or anything like that, but just little things like, "Oh, if you just wore your hair like this," or, "Oh, if you just did that." And so it's very easy to internalize things like that.

Kristen 8:56

Yes.

Mary 8:56

So I guess I learned to- ignore the noise

Speaker 2 9:00

early

Mary 9:01

Yeah. I mean, I didn't think that phrase then, but realistically as I think about it, I probably was trying to ignore some of the negative criticism that I didn't really like. So I think it's good because it also shaped me into a person who, sometimes I joke to my husband, I'm like, "Can you tell me I look pretty every once in a while? It wouldn't kill you," you know? 'Cause he doesn't, he doesn't shower me with compliments. Mm-hmm. But that's okay. I know I don't need to hear that from him, you know what I mean? Right. Like, I feel good about the way I look. I feel good about the way that I communicate with him and our children. Mm-hmm. And so I don't need a constant reassurance from him, and I think part of that is how we grow and we mature. kids need to hear the reassurance. They need to hear things. They're still building their confidence, and I guess we always are, truly, if you think about it. But I guess one of the reasons why my husband and I compliment ourselves so well is because he doesn't need to shower me with those compliments. And I don't necessarily feel like I need to hear them. Is it nice every once in a while? Sure, but as long as I feel good about how I look or feel or what I'm doing, like maybe it's my work or my job, then I'm okay. And he definitely is in tune to knowing when I need that little, like, "You're doing fine." Yeah I've been a little bit, less confident about... 'Cause there have been times where I'm like, "Well, maybe I should step down from coaching," 'cause if this is how it's gonna be, I'm not going to put myself in a situation where it's bringing unhappiness to my life- Mm-hmm so to speak. 'cause there, you know, there's been a time here and there that, I definitely questioned if it was what I should be doing because coaches, just teaching, coaching, education in general, we don't, we're not in it for the money. Like- Right we work for peanuts, so, PSA, be nice to your kids' teachers and coaches.

Speaker 2 10:38

coaches. And

Mary 10:41

if it doesn't bring me joy I'm not gonna stick around and be your punching bag, you know? not a physical, but a verbal. Like, I'm not gonna let you sling mud at me. I'm also not gonna let you break me. So that's where he's like, "You can't walk away from this. This person would be lost without you," Mm-hmm. You know, "Think about the relationship you have with your now head coach. Like, think about those things." And I'm like, "Okay." He's like, "That's not what you really want. You're just speaking in the moment, 'cause it's hard right now, and it's tough right now." And I appreciate that he grounds me and helps me see that. Mm-hmm. When sometimes we get overly emotional, we get caught up and wrapped up- in how we feel about something, it's, it's hard to step back and see the big picture when you're really emotional about things. So I, I love that he helps me find that balance.

Kristen 11:24

That is.

Mary 11:25

Yeah, so.

Kristen 11:26

So that's a lot.

Mary 11:27

I know.

Kristen 11:27

But you said so many things that I need to, piece out a little bit of what you said. Sorry. No, no, this is fantastic. But it was like, every time you said something I'm like, "Oh, I need to talk to you about that. Oh, we need to pull that deeper." So first what I wanna talk about is you talked about, some of the comments that were made to you when you were younger, and I think this is kind of, to me, it's one of kind of the cornerstones of developing confidence, is when you're younger there's a lot of that external validation that you- Mm-hmm I don't even know it's that you need or yearn for, but there's that external validation piece, and then as you get older, I think it really is more of an internal validation. Oh, agreed. So what you mentioned about the comments and what people had said about you, I distinctly remember, and I think you'll appreciate this being a junior high teacher, seventh grade was extremely hard for me.

Mary 12:11

Mm-hmm.

Kristen 12:12

I developed a lot earlier than the other girls, so I had more of a womanly body, and I remember the boys picking on me for having big boobs, it was embarrassing. Like, I remember trying to wear sports bras all the time and kind of hide the body that I had, because I didn't wanna be made fun of by- Yeah Like, it was very hard, and between that and then, like, thank goodness we didn't have social media, 'cause I think I would've been broken. But even just regular media, this was when, you know, and I think I've talked about it on the podcast before when I've talked about some of my weight episodes, is, like, the basically the anorexic, drugged out look was very big in the '90s. Mm-hmm, like everybody, heroin chic, I think is what it was called, and everybody was stick skinny. Like toothpick. And everybody was skinny, and then that's everything in magazines was telling you how to be skinny. And so I had this, and I was still very thin at the time. Like, I wasn't more than a size two or a size four. Like, I was very small but still getting curves. So I felt like I, my body wasn't what it was supposed to be. And so I feel like, as you mentioned, the physical piece, so much of my confidence was in that, that I didn't feel pretty, I didn't feel that people thought I was pretty. Like, I just felt like very awkward in my body, so I felt that I couldn't be confident because of that. And being picked on is really hard- in those, like, formidable years- when you're even discovering who you are as a person. And to have somebody kind of tear you down like that-

Mary 13:34

Yes

Kristen 13:34

it kind of makes it hard to have confidence in yourself.

Mary 13:37

Yeah.

Kristen 13:38

And then fast-forward ahead, you know, 30-plus years later, and it's like you realize that that validation doesn't need to come from other people, that it comes from inside yourself, and that you need to believe in who you are and your abilities. Mm-hmm. And it's more not about what you look like, it's about what you can do. Yeah. And those things are different. Like- Yes you can be a genius and be frumpy. I'm not saying these are bad things, I'm just trying to, like, show differences. Yes. And that doesn't matter. Like, you don't have to be pretty to be successful. Yes. They're not together. And I think that it's hard for younger people when their brains and their bodies are still developing to be able to- Yes So do you have any thoughts on that, about the external, internal validation pieces- and developing confidence?

Mary 14:25

listening to you talk, I get it, but it's funny to me because I was the opposite.

Kristen 14:29

Oh,

Mary 14:29

okay. I didn't develop ver... Like, my younger- Yeah sister, like, hit all those girl milestones before I did. Like, I was-

Kristen 14:36

Oh my

Mary 14:36

gosh I was, like, toothpick thin, and I- Just I don't think I wore a bra till maybe seventh or eighth grade. Like, I don't know that I really needed it. Yeah. And, my, my m- my mom wouldn't let me shave my legs, so- Yeah I got picked on for that. Like, and I went to a- That was

Kristen 14:51

sixth grade for me, yes.

Mary 14:52

It was summer before my freshman year of high school- I finally was like, "I'm just doing this." And she was mad at me, and I was like, "I don't care." But it was what she wanted, "You don't need to do that, I don't think," but she didn't have to go to school and be me every day, and I already was awkwardly thin. Yeah. it's funny the things we learn. Like, I agree with you. When we're younger, we kind of feel good, it makes us feel good- Mm-hmm to hear that external validation about how we look. so as a teacher, I try to really emphasize, I will tell, one of the, you know, girls or boys, like I've told a little boy this today, I was like, "Oh, I love your Under Armour shirt." It was just super cool. I- was like, "I like the blue on that, that's super cool. I'm glad you're back. We missed you when you were on vacation." But I don't hesitate to say, "You have the best handwriting I've ever seen. You are so smart. I love how you read that." Like, I try to validate this part of them.

Kristen 15:37

Yes.

Mary 15:39

I can do this part, but I- also wanna make sure, you know. but girls love it when they, walk in and they are dressed to the nines in their cute outfit. I'll be like, "Oh, I love your shoes, I love your this." Like-

Kristen 15:47

Yes

Mary 15:47

that makes them feel good and it makes them smile, and I hope it gives them a little bit of that confidence boost they need. Like, maybe we have a spelling test that day, and it's gonna make that little seven-year-old feel better and shine when they take their spelling test. Yeah. Now, it doesn't have to be everything, but I think it helps just point 'em in the right direction sometimes. Mm-hmm. but I also think it's harder for them to have self-confidence at a young age because we've learned so much about how we feel being confident women- because of what we've done in life. Oh. You know? Like,

Kristen 16:14

all,

Mary 16:15

our experience helps us build what we're confident about. Mm-hmm. Like, I know we're always, so we know each other through dance. Mm-hmm. I don't think I talked that far, 'cause I a talker. But, I, I don't wanna s- I'm not trying to sound cocky. I get a little nervous for recital, but not super nervous, just because, I've been dancing for a long time, so it doesn't, it doesn't bother me. As long as I know the choreography and I will get out there and I'll be okay. So as long as I don't trip over a piece of tape where a number is or something like that on the stage- or blank out-

Kristen 16:48

Things that are outside your control.

Mary 16:50

Right. So I think I have that confidence because I've been doing this for a long time. Like, I danced in high school. I didn't dance when my kids were younger, but I think my daughter, who's now 20, when she was two, I knew we'd put her in dance- 'cause the child was dancing her little diaper-clad butt around- our house. Any time she heard music, she was wiggling and moving and she's a little bit like her mom. So-

Kristen 17:12

Just a little

Mary 17:13

I was like, I know we're gonna do a Mommy and Me class, so I better get after it, and I started, she was two when I, so I was like, I'm just gonna brush the dust off here- Yeah and, you know, refresh my memory. I wasn't gonna dance in the recital, and then they're like, "Well, somebody dropped out. You can have her costume." And I was like, "What?" And it was a slow Frank Sinatra tap song, so it was fine. I was like, okay. but I picked up dancing again once it was appropriate time-wise, so I'm comfortable and confident doing it.

Kristen 17:40

Yep.

Mary 17:40

but whether it's dance or just the things we do in life, like talking and having conversations and sharing the knowledge that I've gained through life with my dancers, like, I, I don't have a problem doing it, and it's probably has a lot to do with- My age, it's the things we experience that teach us so much. And- part of our job as adults, but especially, I feel like, as women, is to share that with our younger generation. That's how we help them build confidence, help them feel empowered, help them feel capable to do the things they need to do to just get through everyday life. Because now they have social media, which I agree with you, I'm so glad we didn't have social media when we were kids. But we still had to go through, like, the checkout line at the grocery store or at Target, and you saw a magazine with some airbrushed woman plastered on the front of it. And no disrespect to any of those women, but that's not what a woman really looks like.

Kristen 18:31

Right.

Mary 18:31

And one of your questions for me that you emailed me was, like, what was it? Like, a turning point? You didn't phrase it like that. But something that helped you realize, it kinda... For me, it was a turning point when you realized you, you were confident. 'Cause I, I don't know that we always look at ourselves as confident. I know I haven't always done that. But my kids were, I don't remember how long ago it was, but this Facebook memory pops up every year, and it was a post I put out there. Because the Sports Illustrated Woman of the Year

Speaker 2 18:59

was

Mary 19:00

a 19-year-old young lady that was in a swimsuit, and I have nothing against Sports Illustrated or the 19-year-old in the swimsuit, but I was like, "She's Woman of the Year?" And I put a big old post. I was like, "For real, Sports Illustrated? That's all you got?" No disrespect, Sports Illustrated, but a woman... Show me a mom with a couple of kids who's popped out, maybe not even a couple, maybe just one. But a mom that's gotta balance grocery shopping, planning meals, running a household, making sure the laundry's done and the soccer stuff is washed, and cleats are ready for this, and dance shoes for that, and kids in car seats, and lunch is packed, and multiple drop-offs, and show me that mom. Because at that time in my life, I had a husband. He worked nights, and then he moved to his regular day shifts, but it wasn't always the same time. It was maybe 8:00 to 4:00 one day, and then 10:00, or 2:00 to 10:00 the next day, or, you know, 10:00 to 6:00 the next. He missed a lot of, like, running around to kids' musicals and, you know, the elementary plays and stuff on the weekends, 'cause he worked every other weekend. And I had to do a lot of that on my own, and it was hard. So- Yeah find the mom that's hairs on fire trying to get it all done. Yeah. And getting it done well, loving her kids, being a good part of her community. You know, show me that lady, 'cause that's Woman of the Year. No offense, but just 'cause you look cute in a swimsuit?

Speaker 20:24

Right, there's so

Kristen 20:24

so much more to it

Mary 20:26

That, that's nice and all, but okay.

Kristen 20:30

But, that's what we were saying earlier, too, about the physical side of it and the other side of it- and building confidence. Now, I like how you brought up so many things. but I think what I wanted to kind of focus on now is you talk about how you gain confidence, and some of it is from experience. Yeah. And I recently been talking about that because, I've said before, I didn't have a whole lot of confidence in myself. There were things that I knew I could do, but the confidence was always kind of lacking, 'cause even when I was good at something, I would question myself. But then what I have found is putting myself out there and doing things and learning and growing- Mm-hmm can build confidence. So I'm glad you brought up the dancing thing because I had never danced my whole life. I was in gymnastics, and then I switched to soccer, but I was never a dancer. So when I saw my son in his first recital, and I've told this story before, but it's still a great story, and there was like, you know, like a ladies class, and then an- another class was coming on, the lights were down, and my son leaned over and he goes, "Mom, this is gonna be the grandma class." And I was like, "A grandma class?" Lights come up, and it is these ladies who look like my nana, like literally old ladies. They are grandmas. And all I could think is, "If these women are up there and can dance on the stage, why couldn't I?"

Mary 21:40

Yes, girl.

Kristen 21:40

And so I signed up for dance the next year. I had no idea what I was getting into. Like I said, I had not danced ever.

Mary 21:47

ago was that?

Kristen 21:48

So it was 2021 this was my fifth year dancing and I did it, and like I watched some YouTube videos. Like, I'm trying to learn different, tap steps. Like, I wanted... Because anything I do, I want to be good at it. Yeah. Like, that's another thing that I really struggle with, is if I'm not good at something right away, I will quit. Again, and it may be a confidence thing. but I wasn't good at dance right away, but I wanted to do it so badly that I kept doing it. Yeah. And I loved it, and Mary and I won awards at the dance recital this year.

Mary 22:17

Yes. So- We won some very important awards.

Kristen 22:19

Yeah, it was like a really big deal. We got, basically Dancer of the Year award for our class, and it was- For the old

Mary 22:26

lady class.

Kristen 22:26

Not the old, old lady, just the regular old lady class. The semi-old lady class. The old, old ladies got like lifetime achievement awards- Yes for dancing since like 1996. They were so cute. It was amazing.

Mary 22:36

dancing for 30 years.

Kristen 22:37

Yes, and doing it so well. I loved, I

Speaker 22:39

It's so

Speaker 2 22:39

good to have I loved

Mary 22:40

loved that our dance teacher talked about their dedication to dance, and friendship, and margaritas. Yes. And these sweet little 80-something-year-old ladies went running across the stage holding hands, and they got- their trophies from our dance teacher. It was one of the most precious things.

Kristen 22:53

and even- Like, I loved it even after, so I saw them at Mexican after the recital- Mm-hmm

Mary 22:58

Uh-huh.

Kristen 22:58

And I talked to the one, and I was like, "Have you really been dancing since 1996?" And she said, "Yeah." And I said, "What made you start?" 'Cause I'm always curious about what got people- to dance. And she told me this story, that she said her husband had died the year before, and all of her friends lived in a town farther away.

Mary 23:15

Mm-hmm.

Kristen 23:15

And they weren't willing to come down and see her. She was always going up to see them. she's like, "I decided to join a tap dance class and make some friends." Yeah. She's like, "And these have been my best friends for the past 30-plus years." And literally almost started crying, like you are now. Yeah. And because- So sweet that was partly why I had done it too. Like yes, I saw my son dancing and how much fun he had with it, and I wanted that. But also, I wanted a way to make new friends because, Making friends as an adult is hard.

Mary 23:42

Yeah.

Kristen 23:43

And finding- I remember those.

Mary 23:44

liked listening

Kristen 23:44

to those. Thank you. I was

Mary 23:45

like, "Mm-hmm,

Kristen 23:45

But finding people is hard, and so I found that in activities, going to dance and doing a shared activity with people, you get to know people- and you make friends. And to bring it back to confidence, I believe doing activities is what gives you confidence. So, doing dance and doing my first recital gave me the confidence, and being on stage, like, I was born on stage. Not literally, my mom wouldn't have appreciated that. But, like, I was in theater- You've

Mary 24:12

done so much theater.

Kristen 24:12

Yeah. I've done theater my whole life, like public speaking, like I would do TED Talks. This is basically my TED Talk in my studio, right? so I love that, and that rush of adrenaline, I love that part. But then there's other things I have done, like I recently joined a golf league. I had golfed exactly two times before I joined a golf league because, again, it was with my girlfriends, and I wanted to just do something, like have something- Yes physical activity, hang out with the girls, learn a new skill. Golf's one of those things that, like, you can do forever, allegedly. I'm 42 and a half. but I didn't know what I was doing when I started. And then last week, I chipped the ball in the hole from, like, 40 yards away or whatever. Like, it was amazing.

Mary 24:52

That's

Kristen 24:52

awesome. And again, that's building my confidence. So now I tell people, "I'm a golfer." Like, I'm a dancer, I'm a golfer. Like, yeah, I'm a mom and a wife but, like, I'm doing things that build confidence. And I never would have thought I could have done those things before, but you don't know until you get out there. So doing the thing and gaining the experience is what builds your confidence. So you don't have to have confidence to start something. You do the thing, and then you get the confidence, and then you go do a new thing.

Mary 25:18

Yeah. Well, you said that- when you're not good at something right away, you wanna quit- Yeah and stop. Well, and I see that in kids a lot.

Kristen 25:25

Yeah.

Mary 25:25

I don't teach high school, but I have children in high school, or just finished high school, one's still in high school, and if they're not the best at something- they wanna quit. And so I have conversations with my kids a lot, because we just talk about how'd practice go or what'd you think about that game And I said this to one of my sons just the other day. I feel like kids today want to find, and this is probably a topic for another day, they want the glory and what it feels like to win and be good- at something without the grind it takes to get there.

Kristen 25:53

100%. And you have

Mary 25:54

to- kid

Kristen 25:55

all the time

Mary 25:56

put into the grind every day- Mm-hmm and work hard at practice, or whether maybe it's strength and conditioning and lifting and things like that. You have to work to do that stuff in order to feel that w- you know, glory at the- Mm-hmm and it probably not gonna be right away. Like, all of that takes time. You're not gonna find any of that success and that glory until probably later on, near the end of your high school career if you're able to, to have it. But I see that. The kids just wanna walk away and they're like, "Eh, I don't, I don't wanna get up early for practice," and, "Oh, I wanna do this." Well, that, that's well and good, but-

Speaker 2 26:29

That

Mary 26:29

That daily grind, that's what makes you good at something, you know?

Kristen 26:32

Well, no, and I think that goes along with culture today, too. And I, I blame social media for a lot of things. Rightfully so. But it's the- instant gratification system- that we live in now. That if you want something, you get it. So they think, "I'm gonna do this, so I should just be good at it." And you know, I said I see it with my son but like, so he did track and field this year and did shot put. There's not a lot of kids that do shot put. No. You could be the best shot putter if you would put the work in. But it was like he would go to practice after school, and that was it. So my husband bought him his own little shot put ball thingy and said- outside. Throw it out there."

Mary 27:06

Start practicing.

Kristen 27:06

He'd prefer to play video games than to go outside, and then when he doesn't get to go to the meet, it's like, "Well, you're not putting the practice in." yeah. Like, there's kids who can throw further than you, but we have given you all of the tools for you to be successful. Like, here's a shot put. Here's the side yard. Go. Go

Mary 27:23

practice.

Kristen 27:24

And so it's, it's that thing, and again, you're right. It's getting them to see that you have to put the work in. Yeah. But because so many things are just given, like- Oh oh, you want something, buy it on Amazon. Yeah. It's here tomorrow. It's- Instant gratification they don't understand it.

Mary 27:38

And I think, too, sometimes, sometimes how people parent, and I am not judging them, it's just observations I've made- over the years. some people refer to it as gentle parenting. I don't, I don't know if that's what it's called. But parents that sometimes, the helicopter parent that wants to swoop in and rescue their child- so that's part of the issue, or, we, "That's too hard. They can't do that," or, "This isn't their fault." Mm-hmm. I hear that a lot as a teacher. It is their fault. They chose- not to do that assignment or turn it in on time or whatever the situation might be. No, that's on them. Like-

Kristen 28:06

Yep, consequences.

Mary 28:07

Accountability is huge. I say to junior high kids a lot, "You and I already talked about this. I gave you a warning. You ignore the warning, you get the speeding ticket, and here it is. It's a lunch detention."

Kristen 28:17

Yeah.

Mary 28:17

And it doesn't make everybody like me, but my job isn't to be their friend. Yep. My job is to teach them accountability because- They're not gonna be a successful student if I don't hold them accountable to things like due dates, the quality of their work, their behavior in my class. Yes. All of those things.

Kristen 28:33

And the problem is, if they don't learn it in these ages now, then I'm dealing with them at my job because they are people who are not held accountable there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, let's teach them at these young age and hold them accountable so they will be. Now, to bring this back to confidence, because you said some- Sorry. No, no, no. Because you said something that I was like, "Oh, yes, that's part of it too," that I don't even think we'd thought about to start with, the parenting.

Mary 28:56

Yeah.

Kristen 28:56

So I have been a helicopter parent, and I have been that person who has tried to keep... 'Cause he's my only one, like I want to keep him safe. I want to protect him. I've been a helicopter mom.

Mary 29:07

Right? I've

Kristen 29:07

been,

Mary 29:08

I've done that too.

Kristen 29:08

But the part of not letting them experience hard things or not, like they have to experience those hard things, again, to develop- Right their own confidence because they have to know that they can do hard things. They have to know that they can problem solve. They have to know that it is okay to make mistakes and learn and grow from it. And if we aren't letting them fail sometimes- Mm-hmm then they're not going to learn those lessons. Right. And then when all of a sudden they do get to a point and they fail at something, they're not going to know how to deal with it. Mm-hmm. So we have to like, as parents, teachers, adult role models, mentors, whatever, I feel like you have to provide a space where they have the opportunity to make those mistakes in a safe environment. Like, obviously you're not gonna be like, "Hey, I know I never taught you to drive. Here's the keys. Good luck." Mm-hmm. Like, you don't wanna set them up for failure, but you want them to experience- Yeah how to fail.

Mary 30:03

It teaches them coping skills in life.

Kristen 30:05

Right.

Mary 30:05

They, and we all need that. learning to, how do you handle those feelings when you do trip and fall, so to speak- Mm-hmm when you fail at something, how, how do you handle it? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I know my... I have two children. Well, one just finished college, but one, he is just finished his first year of college and his first semester is like, "Yep, high school didn't do anything to get me ready for college." Yeah. And I was like, "Mm-hmm." It's because teachers, like they didn't, deadlines and due dates didn't mean anything. Mm-hmm. Missing assignments, "It's no big deal. It's not, it's not that deep." Yeah. My teenagers love to say that, and I'm like, "Okay, realistically it is." I know you think it's just surface, but it's teaching you that, like, not being accountable for things like- getting your assignments turned in or turning them in on time or being on time to class, whatever the situation is, they're teaching you that that's okay and, and in reality it's not okay. I can't just say, "I don't feel like doing it today," 'cause let me tell you, my sweet little summer school kids, so I go back to the elementary level for summer school, and I've heard a lot of this in the past few days. "I just don't feel like doing that," and I'm like, "This is what we're..."

Kristen 31:13

Right.

Mary 31:13

there's, this isn't an option. I wish that were an option, right? We're gonna have fun in a minute and make edible Dominoes, but first we gotta do the- real work before we get to make math facts on those little-

Kristen 31:21

Yeah

Mary 31:21

Dominoes we're gonna eat, but yeah. I've heard that a lot. "I just don't wanna do that. I don't feel like it."

Kristen 31:26

Yeah. Well, and I think some of it, too, more themes that are coming out are work ethic and then motivations and how people are intrinsically and extrinsically motivated. Because I think that, like, I was just developed with a very strong work ethic. Like, I feel like I was born- with it and how I was raised because, you know, my dad always told me, "You'll appreciate something more if you work for it." Like, I worked for things.

Mary 31:47

And your boss at the ice cream shop. I don't remember his name.

Kristen 31:49

Yes, Mr. Graves,

Mary 31:50

my favorite boss. Love that. I loved that guy. Listening to that one, I was like, "Mm."

Kristen 31:53

If you, listeners, if you have not listened to my Lessons in Leadership from Scooping to whatever, it's a good one. Like, I would listen to it again. It was really, really good. But yeah, like, I just appreciated working hard for things- Mm and getting the results from it.

Mary 32:06

felt good in here.

Kristen 32:07

Yes.

Mary 32:08

And that helped build your confidence,

Kristen 32:09

thank you for bringing that back, too. Mm. Because that's what, I, I see it in my son and probably in other kids, too, is that it's like, what motivates you? Like, 'cause he's also like, even basketball, like, okay, he wants to make the team, which he didn't, but even now it's like, okay, if you're gonna try it again, are you practicing? All right, "Well, I don't feel, it's hot out right now." Like, okay, well, like, what, what motivates you? So I don't know how, but you're right, connecting it back to confidence. Mm-hmm. Like, how do we instill that in the generation coming up to build their confidence, to give them this life skills? How are you doing it with your students and your dancers?

Speaker 2 32:45

my

Mary 32:45

my dancers. Well, I'm-

Kristen 32:47

we haven't talked about that yet I know. Like, you have a whole field of, like- We have lots of- young girls

Mary 32:52

we do team bonding in the summer, like we'll have camp coming up in July. And so I also started something that my head coach suggested, journaling. And so I ask them questions about things like, "What do you think leadership means? What do you think this means?" I journal about confidence. So we did that this past year and I liked it, and I would read their, I kept their journals and I would read them and I'd write back to them.

Kristen 33:15

Oh, so like physical journals.

Mary 33:17

Yeah, paper journals.

Kristen 33:18

love that.

Mary 33:18

Yeah, we started it at camp. I will say I feel like I need to be more scheduled about it, 'cause I feel like I could have done it more.

Kristen 33:26

Mm-hmm.

Mary 33:26

anyway, but I really liked doing that. I feel like I give a lot of one-on-one talks with girls when they just need to talk about something, or just lots of talks as a team. this year it was great 'cause I just had a really, a team that got along really great, and I tell them every, summer when we have camp, about how we're all different and we don't... It's something my mom used to say. "Oh," you know, when I was in the difficult times of junior high, high school, "Not everybody, not everybody's gonna be your cup of tea, Mary." She used to say that to me all the time, "Not g- they're not gonna be your cup of tea and that's okay." Meaning, you know, you're not gonna like everybody you meet, you just have to learn to get along, which sh- she's not wrong. and so I say that to my dancers and I tell them, "Not everybody's gonna be your cup of tea, but we're gonna appreciate each other's teacup."

Kristen 34:10

I love that

Mary 34:11

I say that every year. But I'm very big on, mutual respect. When my kids went to junior high it was a big transition. and it was really hard, especially for my daughter. but, like every, "Sevy's, like, oh, you're just a Sevy, and the eighth graders were aces." And, people were so- Wow mean. And when I started as a coach I was like, "If I hear you utter the word Sevy, I'm gonna give you a demerit." And I do. We have a demerit system. I rarely have to use it. it's for things like that, for behavior- Mm-hmm or if you show up to practice unprepared, you don't have your dance shoes, you don't have your poms, whatever. I, didn't really have to use it very much this past year, which was lovely. but it's team pep talks or it's one-on-one talks, and it's also that just responding to their journal. And sometimes it's a quick, "Oh, I love this. I'm so glad you're here this year, I love having you on our team." Sometimes depending on what, one of my young ladies wrote about, I might have more to say. and the last journal entry we did I tried to write a longer message to all of them. So yeah,

Speaker 2 35:08

There's, it, it's, I can't, it's hard to tell you what it looks like 'cause it- Mm-hmm

Mary 35:08

It's hard to tell you what it looks like 'cause it looks- like what they need. I know what I do with them as a whole group when we do team bonding and team building during our summer camp, and sometimes that circles back around, at practice. But I'm not gonna lie, man, at practice we're working hard 'cause- we got games to perform at- and assemblies, and we don't wanna... I always tell them, "We're not gonna go out there and look like rodeo clowns. If we- can't do the dance, then if you don't know the dance, you're not going to go out there." but whenever they need it, like sometimes it might be, my prep time. girls will say, can I talk to you about this?" And I'll be like, "Yep, I'll call you down to my prep." And I try not to pull them out of class. if I- can pull them during academic lab, when they're not, you know, they're working on something, they're... It's not, and I'm not supposed to call it a study hall, but it's them catching up- on work they need to do. So if I can pull them during that time, then I will, 'cause I don't wanna pull them from another teacher's class time. But sometimes the em- the emotional parts of life are difficult, and they weigh- heavy on them, and so I don't... If it's something I can help with, or they need to talk about, or go splat about, I had- Yeah my first, school I taught at, it was a, a private school. it was a Catholic school. And so it, we had a principal a- but we also had the, the pastor of the church who kind of over- he oversaw all of it.

Kristen 36:21

Like the schools I went to my whole life.

Mary 36:22

Yeah. And that's the kind of school I went to- Yeah most of my life. And I loved our pastor. He was the priest that married my husband and I.

Kristen 36:28

Oh.

Mary 36:29

and so he told us at one of our first, like, we did, like, this retreat, actually did, like, an overnight retreat thing down past Dittmer. And, he said, "You're gonna have parents that will be really angry, and sometimes they're gonna need to go splat." And you just have to duck and let them hit the wall."

Speaker 2 36:45

I

Mary 36:45

my junior high girls don't go splat towards me, but they just, it's like splat, word vomit, whatever you wanna call it. They just need to get it out and talk about it. And so I sometimes am just the person there listening, and I do a lot of this and, "Okay." And sometimes it's stuff I have to, you know, act on- Mm-hmm and maybe talk to some other girls like- Right "Hey, did this really happen? Yes? No. Okay. Well, no, we're not gonna do that." But sometimes it's just listening and reassuring- Mm-hmm them that it's okay or it might be maybe try looking at it from this perspective, 'cause I've had to do that, too. And they're like, "Okay, I never thought about that." I'm like, "Just, you know, maybe." So i- it's hard to tell you it's one thing or another because it's not. It's whatever those girls- Whatever they

Kristen 37:27

need

Mary 37:27

need in that time.

Kristen 37:29

I think hearing you talk about that, you were saying, teaching, coaching, you're not in it for the money. But I think that's what you're in it for, that you are making a real difference in people's lives. And even if you can't see it in the moment when they're here, it may be years from now- Yeah and they look back and they're like, "I had that teacher and I had that coach." So, was there somebody in your life like that for you when you were younger? Do you look back and was there a role model, whether real or fictional? I recently did an episode on how Mary Tyler Moore and Bunkie Brewster and Al Woods were basically the women who raised me. did you have people, whether in your life that, in real life or in fictional life, that you looked up to that helped create or instill some of that confidence in you? And not even just at that age, but even going through high school, college- Mm-hmm young adulthood, were there women for you in that position?

Mary 38:19

Yeah. as a kid, all of my sisters, 'cause I have four sisters.

Kristen 38:22

Mm-hmm.

Mary 38:23

and my older sisters,

Speaker 2 38:25

so

Mary 38:25

so they're in their 50s now, their upper 50s. I have a sister that's a year younger and then one that's five years older, and then two more beyond that.

Speaker 2 38:33

just

Mary 38:33

just the way they did life, like the way they lived, they... all of my siblings, like, when they turned 16 they got jobs so that they could, you know, they were trying to save to buy a car, things like- Things were not handed to us. Mm-hmm. Like, what we wanted we had to work for.

Kristen 38:48

Yep.

Mary 38:48

when my younger sister and I went, when we were in high school, they were like, "Yeah, w- we..." My older siblings would be like, "Well, we didn't have a car," but life looked very different when my younger sister and I were teenagers. how do I say this politely? It's difficult growing up in a household where, someone has mental illness, and so that was my life as a teenager. And so while my parents had an extra car for us to drive around, there definitely was other things that were harder to deal with. While my- older brothers and sisters didn't have a car available and, you know, things like that,

Speaker 2 39:17

It, yeah,

Mary 39:18

yeah, it was just more difficult, I guess, when I was a teenager. But that being said, my sisters, and my mom, like my mom,

Speaker 2 39:25

she

Mary 39:25

she was kind of that spitfire woman that was like, "Mm-mm, we're not gonna do this. You're not gonna say that."

Speaker 2 39:31

And

Mary 39:31

And my, my mother-in-law, I had a really great relationship with her. I'll definitely... I, she's, she's in heaven now. But she was more of that, that very obedient woman. Here's what's funny. When they were both sick and in the hospital at the same time

Speaker 2 39:46

my

Mary 39:46

my mom was okay. She's fine now. She's just...

Speaker 2 39:49

It's

Mary 39:50

It's funny because they were both at the same hospital a couple floors apart. And so I went to go see my mom and then my mother-in-law, and my mom was the cranky German, griping at the nurses and, "And then your father, he did this and he did that." I'm like, "Well, you just told me he did X, Y, and Z for you. If I tried to talk my husband into doing that, he'd be like, 'Nope, I'm throwing this-

Kristen 40:11

Right

Mary 40:11

this stuff away that you want me to take home and wash.' Like, no, I'm not doing that." He, I said, "And he did all that with a smile on his face out of love?" I was like, "My husband wouldn't do that, Mom, so you should just thank your lucky stars that yours..." Like, she was griping about my dad. I'm like, "Yeah, he's pretty good. I don't think you need to..." And I know she was just cranky 'cause she was in the hospital. Didn't wanna be. Didn't wanna be there, but she was griping at the nurses and da, da. All these people who were trying to help her. And my mother-in-law, I had just visited her a few floors below and she was all, "Thank you," and she's that very obedient, pleasant like... They're just different-

Kristen 40:44

Yes

Mary 40:44

women. And they got along great when my mother-in-law- was still alive. any holiday, you know, my parents, her, my husband's mom. His dad passed away when he was real young, so, that's why I don't really talk about him 'cause I didn't have the opportunity to know him. Mm-hmm. But my mother-in-law and my mom are two very different women. And it's funny- because people always say, "Oh, you, you know, men marry women like their mom." And I'm like, "I don't feel like I'm anything like her." Like, not to be rude, but she was very like

Speaker 2 41:10

obedient. Yes.

Mary 41:11

Yes. And I'm like, "No. Mm-mm. you want a soda? Go get yourself a soda." Right. Like, I'm

Kristen 41:15

not your

Mary 41:15

maid.

Kristen 41:15

You're not making him a sandwich- Right in the kitchen.

Mary 41:18

Yeah. But-

Kristen 41:18

You're barefoot and pregnant.

Speaker 2 41:20

No.

Mary 41:20

No. No. I'll be like, "Okay, I'm doing X, Y, Z tonight. You guys get to do this, do that, do this." Yep. and he's a... It's not like he sits around on his keister at home, like-

Kristen 41:28

Right

Mary 41:29

this weekend he replaced the brakes on my car Yay. Yeah, like, he's a busy guy. So anyway, I think it's funny 'cause I'm like, "I don't, like, I don't feel like I'm a ton like your mom." I loved his mom very much. Yeah. I took her to Colorado with me and the kids one summer. We took her to the beach in Florida. She had never seen the mountains, so I was like, "Oh, well you just need to go with me." Wow. Yeah. "You can't go..." Oh, sorry. "Hubby can't go."

Speaker 2 41:50

so I

Mary 41:50

so I was like, "Why don't you come with us?" And she had never seen the mountains, and I took her to see the mountains,

Kristen 41:54

I love

Mary 41:54

Yeah. But that being said, my mom was that pistol spitfire. Somebody tried to make me eat a hot dog once in the cafeteria at school. I accidentally made the wrong lunch choice, and you weren't allowed to change your mind. And I didn't buy my lunch every day, so I don't know if it was just nervous or excited, but I guess I said hot dog and I wanted a hamburger, and I did not... I was a very picky eater and she was ready to call that school 'cause they wanted- Get this. They wanted me to, they don't want me to waste food, and they were gonna take it out of the trash and make me eat that hot dog. And I was like, "I'm not eating that hot dog."

Kristen 42:22

No.

Mary 42:23

Yeah. My mom, and rightfully so, she was ticked off, man. And I know she called the school

Speaker 2 42:28

And let

Mary 42:28

And let somebody have it.

Kristen 42:30

Oh my gosh.

Mary 42:31

But that's what I'm saying. She was that pistol-

Kristen 42:33

Mm-hmm

Mary 42:33

when she needed to be that pistol. She could also be the quiet little songbird in church-

Kristen 42:37

Yeah

Mary 42:37

singing to her heart's content. But boy, when she needed to light a fire under somebody's butt, she did it. You know? Like, so I had that kind of influence. and I had sisters that just worked hard, had, you know, jobs while they went to college. And, One of my sisters, she made her, what, her prom dress for her senior year. She

Kristen 42:59

made

Mary 42:59

It was strapless and beautiful- Oh, wow like a mermaid fitted gown with tulle and ruff. Like, it was beautiful. I love that. She made it. She sewed it. Then when she and her high school sweetheart got married, she made all the bridesmaids' gowns. Yeah.

Kristen 43:11

Wow.

Mary 43:12

She had seven bridesmaids, and she made all of them.

Speaker 43:16

Mm-hmm.

Kristen 43:17

That's amazing.

Mary 43:18

in 1987, like technology on sewing machines- is better

Kristen 43:21

Oh, it was a s- I'm picturing her there with like a needle and thread- And she had- like slaving away she had my mom's

Mary 43:26

Singer sewing machine. Okay. But it wasn't new by any means,

Kristen 43:29

Was it the one with like the foot pedal? Like, I'm still like back- it did have- in like 1800s. Okay.

Mary 43:32

But it did have a foot pedal, 'cause I can remember- my mom trying to get me to sew something when I was a teenager on it. But yeah, like that's, my sisters were, they were strong women- you know, from a very early age, and it was, it's, that's, I'm sure that's what shaped me, like- seeing their strength and resiliency through life. Like, both my oldest sisters married, one married, an Air Force airman, and one married a marine. And so, you know, when your husband's in the military, they've been deployed and on different- tours many times, and so like that makes you strong.

Kristen 44:06

Yeah, 'cause you have to be, because you're what is there for the family.

Mary 44:09

Yeah. And they had little kids,

Kristen 44:11

See, I love, you have all these like empowering stories, and I'm like, yeah, the women who shaped me, I mean, the Spice Girls really had an impact with girl power.

Mary 44:20

Oh, girl, music shapes me, too. Right? It's funny, I grew up listening to Madonna. Yeah. And now as an adult, I don't care for Madonna. But like, boy, you turn on some Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell, and I'm- I was singing to that in my kitchen- Right before I came here. We were watching Remember the Titans,

Kristen 44:35

great

Mary 44:35

movie Ain't No Mountain High. I got my own moves to it.

Kristen 44:38

Yeah.

Mary 44:38

And my- I'm a

Kristen 44:38

great dancer

Mary 44:39

my 16-year-old was just giggling at me, 'cause I'm trying to stir spaghetti sauce, and I was like, "Here, test the sauce for me. Make sure it's okay." and he's like.

Kristen 44:45

And you're like, "Solo." Yeah.

Mary 44:48

He's just giggling at me. And that's one of the songs, funny enough, I have a playlist that my team does when we stretch and warm up. I have the same boring list in my iTunes,

Kristen 44:58

Mm-hmm

Mary 44:59

that, my Apple iTunes, that my, that was there when my daughter, 'cause I coached her as an eighth-grader, not- Yeah as a seventh-grader.

Kristen 45:05

Yeah, 'cause she was a SEV then,

Mary 45:06

Right. Well- and she would come home and talk about things, and I was like, "What were the girls saying? What were they doing?" I was like, "Where was your coach?" And, she didn't do anything, she didn't say anything. Mm-hmm. And I was like, I just saw so many opportunities for character development. Yeah. And yes, I can dance. I've been dancing for forever, but that's why I ultimately applied for that coaching position- Yeah when it came open. I was like, "Oh, we gotta teach these girls how to be women." Mm-hmm. Because there's so many missed opportunities to teach them how to be responsible-

Speaker 2 45:33

Hardworking, respectful women

Mary 45:36

women And

Kristen 45:36

confident

Mary 45:37

Mm-hmm. But I think once you have those things, then you're going to be confident. Yep. But I was like, oh my gosh, the way some of the girls were behaving, I was like, "What is happening?" So yeah, I mean, dancing is part of it, being a coach for me, but I tell people all the time, you could be the best dancer in the world, but ultimately I want you to be a good human being first. Mm-hmm. 'Cause that's

Kristen 45:57

gonna go longer.

Mary 45:57

I tell my girls, you can't, you're not gonna dance if, grades fall below 70%, and I tell parents that too. Misha allows you to fail like two classes or something ridiculous. Coach Stevenson doesn't allow that. You're going to have a 70% or higher in all of your classes- because Ds are not acceptable to me. That's

Kristen 46:15

how track was too, because I think you're right, there's whatever the guidance is, but then the coach was like, "If you have an F in anything, you're done." not going to meets, like whatever."

Mary 46:26

And our track coach, he was really good, because he would, send emails out to the kids about their grades. He would always call us first, the teacher in that class, to make sure, did they check with you? Did they try this? And we'd have to say this, yes, they did, or no, they didn't, or this is what happened. And the coach would send an email to the kiddo, and he would CC the teacher so that we knew what was being communicated. I love that. I really appreciated that. He was

Kristen 46:47

really good with the parents too, and letting us know about how kind of his view on coaching, and that it really- is about developing them as people- and working together as a team. And it was so much more. Like, yes, winning is good and fun if it happens- but it's more about the development and being good humans- and being responsible, and I loved it.

Mary 47:06

Well, and at this age- Like absolutely loved it we're trying to teach them that mindset- Mm-hmm to get them ready so they know, oh, I gotta put in the work. Yes. I gotta, I gotta put in the grind. You know, like, I know it's dance, and my girls, this year my team did compete, but in the past my team didn't always compete. So I always tell them, yes, we practice, but you have to go practice on your own at home. Yes. Because if you don't, you're, if you don't use it, you're gonna lose it. You're gonna forget it.

Kristen 47:30

Yep. And it's gonna show. People will be able to tell who did the work and who didn't. Yes.

Mary 47:34

Yes.

Kristen 47:34

Now, if we can go back to something else real quick that you mentioned near the beginning, but we didn't get to fully discuss it.

Mary 47:40

Yes.

Kristen 47:40

So this is your little catchphrase. Yes, it is. So you can tell us a little bit more. You mentioned with college boyfriend, you kind of ignored the noise that he had. Mm-hmm. But where did this come from, and how are you using it in your life, and how are you teaching it to others?

Mary 47:53

kids talk, and they say terrible things, and I have sweet kids, not just my dancers, but just junior high kids in general, because every day I have 160 kids that walk through my door every single day, and that's every teacher. It's not just me. so that's a lot of faces, and so sometimes those faces have tears. and it's not just girls either. Like, sometimes I get boys that are frustrated and upset, and they're having a hard day. It's harder to get them to talk to, I will say that. It's harder to get the boys to talk.

Speaker 2 48:19

just

Mary 48:19

it happens a lot with my dancers, you know? "I heard that so-and-so said this about me to a friend," and I went like, "Well, did you ask them? Did you hear them say it?" And they're like, "Well, no, but so-and-so told me." I said, "Well, did you go ask her if she said that?" And she's like, "Well, no." I said, "Well, go talk to her." I said, "Because we live in a small little community." I was like, "Did you ever play telephone when you were a kid?" And they're like, "Yeah." I said, "So whatever phrase was at the beginning, did it ever sound the same at the end?" And they're like, "Not really." I'm like, "Okay." So ignore the noise. Like, and w- we always take some heat as a team because this coach wants bright red lipstick. Like, I want you to go out there and perform and look like a team, but that's just what I choose. Mm-hmm. I know some people don't like that red lipstick. Sometimes my girls get,

Speaker 2 49:00

they

Mary 49:01

people boys typically will say rude things like, "Oh, you guys look like hookers," or, "With your red lipstick." And I know the parents- They're just jealous The girls don't like that 'cause it makes them feel bad, And so, from the very beginning, I've had to kinda combat that mindset. Like, "No, that's not true. You know that none of you are like that. Okay, don't worry about... Don't... Ignore the noise." So I don't know when I started saying it, but I tell them that a lot because if you let it eat at you, it's gonna shake your confidence. And people say stuff that's not true. Like-

Kristen 49:28

Mm-hmm

Mary 49:29

that's happened to me. Like, I love our small town, don't get me wrong. I love it, but sometimes being in a small town, people will say things and I'm like, "That's not true. Nope, that's not true either."

Kristen 49:38

Yeah.

Mary 49:39

So.

Kristen 49:39

It's kind of like an extension of high school. Mm. Like, because there's so many people that have been here forever that know each other- or are related, like- they feel comfortable just saying whatever- whether it's true or not.

Mary 49:49

My husband has lived here his whole life, so I get it.

Kristen 49:52

Yeah.

Mary 49:53

Everybody knows him, and there are people- who'll be like, "Oh," or they know my mother-in-law. And so, when I first started teaching at Hillsboro, I'd get a lot of, "Oh, you're so-and-so's daughter-in-law. Oh, I just love her. She played the organ at my wedding." She played the- at everybody's wedding.

Kristen 50:06

Yeah.

Mary 50:06

So yeah.

Speaker 2 50:07

I,

Mary 50:08

I'll just say that my husband's family is well-known, he's lived here his whole life. His mom, they moved here when she was 10. So.

Kristen 50:14

Yeah, so her- almost her whole life too. Yeah. So it's deep- It's- deep roots.

Mary 50:17

it's a wonderful thing. but it also can be a little scary because, years and years ago, I think my youngest child was one when this happened, my husband got really sick. We thought he had lymphoma. He did not. He had something called- Castleman's disease. but it was this rollercoaster of, oh, maybe the... 'Cause you know, doctors are just making- their best guess based on-

Kristen 50:38

I thought you were gonna say making it up, because- also yes, but.

Mary 50:40

we had good care and good doctors, and I have a family member who, is a doctor, and so she was the translator to guide me through stuff. Mm-hmm. Because whenever we would go through stuff with our kids, my husband is the translator 'cause he works in the medical field. And so with him being in the hospital for a couple of weeks, and my kids- were little, and it was over Christmas break. And- it was hard, and I was really, really scared that someone in the community who knew my husband would say something to my kids- 'cause they were little.

Kristen 51:05

Oh, yeah.

Mary 51:06

And between preschool and regular, I was like, "Oh, gosh, please don't say anything to- Right you know, like, "Oh, I hope your dad's okay." And, you know- Yeah my kids were little, and it was very obvious that dad wasn't there. Mm-hmm. And so there were lots of tears, and he, you know, he was in the hospital over Christmas Day. He went in-

Kristen 51:22

Oh

Mary 51:22

a couple days before, Christmas Eve into Christmas. it was very hard, and they didn't understand all that was wrong with him. But they knew something wasn't right, 'cause-

Kristen 51:29

Right, 'cause he wouldn't miss Christmas.

Mary 51:31

No, they have parents that, we don't spend any time apart really. Mm-hmm. Like, we're always with each other, with our kids. Yeah. So, we all go on vacations together. We usually, I'm going on a girls trip with my sisters, and it's weird- Ooh 'cause I haven't done that in a while.

Kristen 51:45

That's so fun.

Mary 51:45

It is fun. I'm excited, and I'm looking forward to it. But, like, when we go somewhere, we tend to go together. We just, we're just like that. We're, we're a tight family, I guess. So they definitely knew something was off, but I was very worried that somebody was gonna say something to my kids and then trigger something and make them afraid or scared. Not that I wanted to,

Speaker 2 52:04

them

Mary 52:04

them from what was happening. Right.

Kristen 52:06

on your terms.

Mary 52:07

Yeah, and there were just so many uncertainties when we were going through stuff.

Speaker 2 52:10

Like,

Mary 52:11

I loved that the community really rallied around us, and people were praying for my husband and my family, and I appreciate that. but at the same time, you know, when they're like, "Who are you and why are you talking to me about my dad?" Right. You know, when you're a little kid, like, that's hard. Yeah. So that was a total tangent. Well, but- I don't know how I got onto all that

Kristen 52:26

that's another ignore the noise situation too. Because you almost just needed them to, while they're little, to ignore anything else going on. Like, unless I or your dad are telling you, you don't have to-

Mary 52:36

Yeah

Kristen 52:36

listen to that. But, and you talk about ignore the noise, and I love the examples you use, and especially about the gossiping or, you know, hearing what people said. But I also think sometimes there is an ignore the noise inside your head- Oh, gosh and you have to ignore- I say it to myself all the time the noise- Mm-hmm because of the different self-talk you have. You know, I talked earlier about how even if I- Mm-hmm am good at something and I still have that self-doubt that maybe I'm not good enough or maybe- Mm-hmm I'm not doing... Like, there is so much inside that when you first said ignore the noise, at one point I thought it was ignore all the noise just in your head. Like, just do the thing. But do you- It's both do you think that is a part of it also?

Mary 53:12

definitely. And I think s- because the noise we hear in here is triggered by what's out there.

Kristen 53:17

Right.

Mary 53:17

I think they definitely go together like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. You know what I mean? Like, so I know when I've talked with my dancers about it, they're internalizing things, and they're stewing on stuff. You know? Overthinking. We talked about that. Like, oh, let me hold, let me overthink this. Yeah I used to say, "Oh, I'm overthinking it," or, and I'd be apologetic about it. But you know what? There's nothing wrong with how we process. And if you wanna call that overthinking and make it negative, that's fine, that's on you. But I look at it how, as how I process something. Like, how does my head think about it? Mm-hmm. How does my heart feel about it based off of what my eyes saw-

Kristen 53:51

I love that

Mary 53:51

I learned that in college, and it's stuck with me 'cause here I am all these years later.

Kristen 53:56

Yeah,

Mary 53:56

almost

Kristen 53:56

50. But

Mary 53:57

There's a lot of truth in that. I mean, basically, I'm ready for cheesecake and Florida. Yes. Golden Girls, do you wanna be in my club? I

Kristen 54:03

would love to. Okay. But only if we have a house that has, like- green leaves and, like, gaudy furniture maybe it's

Mary 54:09

just cheesecake on a Thursday night. Like, you have golfing one night- Yeah we can have a cheesecake club.

Kristen 54:13

I love it.

Mary 54:14

I'm there for that.

Kristen 54:14

Actually, how do you feel about pickles?

Mary 54:17

Pickles.

Kristen 54:17

Okay, so recently they opened a pickleball court here, and they're having this pickleball club or whatever, and I was like, "Forget pickleball club. I just want the pickle club." Yeah. Like, I'm thinking about starting a pickle club, and you just, everybody comes and brings their own jar of pickles. Like- Mm-hmm we've got some bread and butter. Mm-hmm. We've got some spicy. We've got some dill. And we all just share pickles- Mm-hmm and talk about pickles. Like-

Mary 54:35

Yes

Kristen 54:36

I'm thinking about starting

Mary 54:36

a pickle club. Pickles and life.

Kristen 54:38

Yes.

Mary 54:38

Yes, 'cause pickles are a good analogy for life, 'cause life can be sweet-

Kristen 54:44

Mm-hmm

Mary 54:44

and buttery and wonderful-

Kristen 54:45

Yes

Mary 54:46

like a sweet pickle, or it could be salty like a dill.

Kristen 54:49

Right.

Mary 54:50

sometimes there's a little crunch. Sometimes things are soft. You get a little of both.

Kristen 54:53

Yeah. Sometimes it's- And spicy

Mary 54:55

depending upon what you're having your pickles with, it's gonna take on a whole other flair. It might be on a burger. It could be in relish on a Portillo's hot dog.

Kristen 55:02

Yeah, you could chop it up in relish and,

Mary 55:04

I know

Kristen 55:05

put it in egg salad.

Mary 55:06

Right?

Kristen 55:07

Ugh.

Mary 55:07

They're so versatile.

Kristen 55:08

Yeah. They really are. Pickle is like the new potato. Like, you can just eat it so many different ways. I love

Mary 55:12

potatoes

Kristen 55:13

too. I know. I would also have a potato club. Everybody bring their version of potatoes. Like- Oh Like,

Mary 55:17

I bought 15 pounds of potatoes at the store this past weekend- That's a lot of

Kristen 55:21

potatoes

Mary 55:22

because I was like, I'm gonna meal prep with this, with my potatoes, Oh, I- Love it we're gonna have baked potatoes one night this week, like-

Kristen 55:28

Yeah

Mary 55:28

I was trying to meal a plan.

Kristen 55:29

We got so off topic here now. I know, I'm sorry. No, we're fine. I think we've done really good. is there anything else that you wanted to talk about? We talked about Ignore the Noise. We talked about coaching confidence. We talked about confidence beyond dance. Oh, can we get into the lightning round? These are things- Oh you don't know about. But fir- Okay. Was there anything else you wanted to talk about first? Don't

Mary 55:48

think so. Okay. This has been fun.

Kristen 55:49

All right, lightning round.

Mary 55:51

Okay.

Speaker 55:52

One word

Kristen 55:53

word that describes confidence.

Mary 55:55

Strength.

Speaker 55:56

Biggest

Kristen 55:57

confidence killer.

Mary 56:03

I would say Negativity towards your self-image. But that's my own personal experience.

Speaker 56:11

That's

Kristen 56:11

That's your answer. That's great. Best confidence builder Compliments.

Speaker 2 56:22

Compliments. Being

Mary 56:22

Being complimented, whatever that might be

Speaker 56:25

A

Kristen 56:25

A role model everyone should know about

Speaker 2 56:33

That's

Mary 56:34

That's hard because that's different for everybody

Speaker 2 56:38

Well,

Speaker 56:38

who's a

Kristen 56:39

who's a role model you have that you think everyone should know about?

Speaker 2 56:45

I

Mary 56:45

I talked about the women in my life growing up, my sisters, my mom. But as I've gotten older, I really appreciate the relationship I have with my husband. and I feel like we complement each other well, and I love that the role model that he is for our children. and I see a lot of the things he does being, kind of parallel or similar to my dad. My dad's one of my favorite people on the whole planet. So, I don't know if I would call him, like, a role model, but he's definitely something that, or a person that I kind of look towards, like, "Hmm, gosh, I'm glad." This is the way I look at it, take it or leave it, with religion, but I feel like God has a person for you- Mm-hmm and He has a plan for you. And so I'm always like, "Man, I'm glad I listened to God and-"

Kristen 57:26

He got

Mary 57:26

you and I connected- Mm-hmm 'cause, like, just the odds of me growing up in a different state, him growing up here, like, what are the odds of that happening? Right. But that was the plan. Yeah. I didn't know it, but I trusted that-

Kristen 57:38

Yeah, and good thing you got rid of college boyfriend.

Mary 57:40

yeah. Yeah,

Kristen 57:42

that- Yeah

Mary 57:42

though that's a whole other podcast.

Kristen 57:44

Yes. We're moving on. All right. A book, quote, or lesson that has stayed with you.

Mary 57:53

That's tough. There's so many good quotes that I like.

Kristen 57:56

Tailored towards confidence

Mary 57:58

the series that I mentioned- Mm-hmm When I Arrived, it focuses a lot on love, and it's not just one... there's not a specific quote, but I love, I enjoy that the different aspects of love, and they're, they're all just make-believe stories, mind you, but I l- I appreciate how they're,

Speaker 2 58:17

the

Mary 58:17

the main characters are very different, and they're, they're finding love at an adult age when they didn't think they could. Oh, I love that. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, they were lacking confidence in love and relationships, and... they didn't lack confidence in self-esteem or anything like that, but they'd had enough experiences when they were younger. And granted, once again, made-up characters, but they had enough negative experiences, and hearing them in the story, the characters, like, come to terms with things and understand the big picture and how those things impacted the way they are now, and how they were, like, closing themselves off to people. It's just really interesting. There's a lot of psychology in these made-up characters, and I'm enjoying that. Like, I didn't think I would appreciate that side of it, but as I finished the second book of this trilogy, I finished it today, and I was like, "Gosh, I'm really enjoying that part of it." Yeah. And I don't know that I appreciated it in the first one, but now the second one, I'm like, I really like all the psychological components that the author puts in there without making it a boring psychology book. Does that make sense? I love... Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's... But my major in school, was not education. In Colorado, you can't major in it, which is where I went to college. So, my major is a combination of psychology and sociology.

Kristen 59:31

Oh.

Mary 59:31

And so maybe that's part of why I find it really interesting.

Kristen 59:34

That's awesome. All right, last one. This is, this is actually my favorite. Fill in the blank: If you can learn to ignore the noise, you can

Speaker 2 59:43

You can

Mary 59:44

You can do anything.

Speaker 59:46

There

Kristen 59:46

There you go. Right? I think that's fantastic.

Mary 59:47

at the end of the day, as long as you're happy with what you're doing, that's all you need to do. You can accomplish anything.

Speaker 59:53

It's true.

Kristen 59:54

It's true.

Speaker 59:55

Well, Mary, you,

Kristen 59:57

thank you so much for joining me. I think it's funny because I almost introduced you. Do you remember, like, do you ever listen to Delilah on the radio? I have. and people call and be like, "Long time listener, first time caller." That's me. And I feel like that's kind of who you were today. You've been a long-time listener. Yeah. You have been so supportive of me and the podcast this entire time. Oh, I love your podcast. And I am just so thankful that you made time to come with us today. I hope that you've seen that this is not scary. And you are welcome to come back anytime. I'm sure listeners would love to hear even more because we have so many more things to talk about. but before we close, is there any final thought you would like to leave our listeners with?

Mary 1:00:33

I mean, not really.

Kristen 1:00:34

Okay.

Speaker 1:00:35

that's great.

Kristen 1:00:36

I think you said a lot today, and it's gonna be amazing. thank you, Mary, and we'll talk again soon. Absolutely. Thanks.

Mary 1:00:40

Thanks for having me.

Kristen 1:00:42

Bye.

1:00:48

Thanks for spending this time with me. I hope this conversation made you feel a little less alone. Take care of yourself, and I'll talk with you soon