Kristen: 0:02

Welcome to season two of Talk with Kristen with an E. This season, we're digging a little deeper into leadership, personal growth, and the courage it takes to follow your passion. Real conversations, honest reflections, because life isn't perfect and neither are we. Hey everybody. Welcome back today we have Katie, which I am very excited about, Katie, welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Caity: 0:38

Kristen, thank you for having me on your podcast my home base is Boulder, Colorado. I've been there for over 15 years I feel like I, I am pretty sure, Kristen, tell me if I'm wrong. The rule is that if you've lived in a place for at least 10 years you can call it home.

Kristen: 0:56

Yes. I believe it's 10 years. I totally agree.

Caity: 1:00

It feels like home at least. Yeah, for sure. We, you and I met at a conference earlier this year.

Kristen: 1:08

So fun.

Caity: 1:09

Do you remember that moment? I remember it clearly.

Kristen: 1:11

tell me your version and we'll see how much they match or if we remember different things.

Caity: 1:18

Yeah. If I remember correctly, it was the last day of a conference since COVID, I have not been to many conferences, i's kind of like out of the rhythm Yes. Of constant social butterfly, miss, which I used to really enjoy and I still do. I'm just outta shape. And you were so energetic, especially for, the final throws of this conference. My now CEO was sitting next to me and you reinvigorated the day for us. We had a lovely. Fun conversation. Half work, half not which was incredibly refreshing. I feel like sometimes, especially at conferences, we forget that we're just people. It was so nice.

Kristen: 2:03

I wait till the last day to go to all the booths because I am so excited by the different keynote speakers and panels. The final day is when I go through the booths, which is good because they're not busy, but bad because there's not a lot of free stuff. I don't need all that free stuff.

Caity: 2:17

No.

Kristen: 2:18

I remember trying to go to booths of places I hadn't heard of or looked interesting the people looked welcoming. So yeah, I walked right up, I'm like, Hey, what is it you guys do? Tell me about this. And then it led into other things, like you said, beyond just work. And I had. Like I wasn't even planning on talking about my podcast because you're not supposed to solicit I was focused on learning and then I forget what happened. We're talking about people following their passions I was talking to your CEO about life and he brought up stuff you had done i'm like, oh my gosh, Katie, you're amazing. Hey, I have a podcast. Would you like to be a guest? It all just came out.

Caity: 2:56

It's amazing. Wonderful, exciting and I'm so excited to be here

Kristen: 3:02

yes, me too. And it does show that I believe, you know, everything happens for a reason and people are putting your life for a reason. And I do think that there was something, pulling us together and making this happen. So I'm excited that the stories have aligned, our schedules have aligned, and we are making this happen now.

Caity: 3:18

Yes.

Kristen: 3:20

So today we're talking about social media and for anybody who's listened to any length of time, you know I have some very strong opinions on social media. We're gonna talk about that katie and I talked briefly about some initial thoughts, but really it's just gonna be talking about. Taking social media, what it means to us, the impact and you know, what we're doing about it. Maybe so. So we'll see. So Katie, first, gimme a little bit of background of like, what was the first social media you remember being on?

Caity: 3:56

Oh, Kristen. You know what? I'm surprising myself. My first inkling of an answer was Facebook when you had to have a college email address. Yes.

Kristen: 4:07

Edu.

Caity: 4:08

Yep. But if I'm like really going back, it was MySpace. Yes. Yeah. We had I the youngest of four in high school, we got our first computer Oh. And was dial up and you, no one could be on the phone, it was either the phone is available for inbound or outbound calls, or someone is on the computer on a OL, right?

Kristen: 4:39

Or MySpace. I was thinking MySpace was my first too because, I got on there after some people were on Facebook already, because, um, when I had graduated college, that's when Facebook came out. I missed the opportunity. My.edu address had run out so I couldn't get on Facebook. So I got on MySpace instead. You know what was a predecessor to MySpace and I don't know if you'll remember this'cause I know I'm a little bit older than you. There used to be blogging type sites. They weren't called blogging back then, but there was something called Zenga. X-A-N-G-A. You'd write about your day and people could comment on it. So like it really was a predecessor to blogs, but at the same time it was a sort of social media because people could react much like on Facebook. Then when Facebook came out,

Caity: 5:25

yes. You know what? I don't remember Zynga. So either I was just not cool enough, which is, which is entirely possible. Or by the time we bought a computer MySpace was in full swing.

Kristen: 5:40

What are some of your first memories of it? Do you remember what you were doing on MySpace or what you were using social media for back then?

Caity: 5:47

Before MySpace, like middle school. I had a journal I really enjoyed writing and, and I, I was, I was definitely, uh, let's say I like to describe it that kind of, from the womb I was different. Oh. But like in a good way. A lot of people in a good way that just made it a little more challenging to fit in. We'll put it that way. Mm-hmm. So I loved my journal and at some point my mom's thought it was a good idea to like, read my journal. No. And I, I, like, as an adult, I as an adult, I understand her good intent,

Kristen: 6:24

She would

Caity: 6:24

read my journal then write me little, like, you know, note fact in my journal, like, oh. Katie, you know, I'm sorry you had a bad day or whatever. And obviously I, I didn't that the journaling, the physical journaling tapered off in the notebook I found my space, maybe because my mom didn't know she couldn't leave notes on it. I loved it and used to write about just. Thoughts. Mm-hmm. And I would kind of use it as just a place to explore, you know, kind of what was happening around me or observations. I was in show choir for a hot second. Everyone was on MySpace and it got a little mean girls.

Kristen: 7:12

my Zenga experience was similar to what you were talking about. I had journaled my whole life, a little in elementary school, but definitely from middle school through high school. I had a journal throughout the school year, the summer, like I have. Piles of books of my writing. I don't know that my mom ever got into it, but I'm even now just have a sick feeling for that part of your story. Like, that's such an invasion of privacy. Like, that makes me sick. But so I switched to Zenga as kind of my online journal then. Which there may have actually been a website called Online Journal or something and it was me sharing what had happened during the day. Musings or thoughts I always wanted to be a writer, so I was just writing my thoughts and sharing it with the world and I thought it was so wonderful, which it really isn't that much different than what I'm doing now. Switching to MySpace. I remember being so excited about teaching myself like HTML coding because we'd go through and like put like different backgrounds on, like you could copy and paste stuff in there. And then do you remember when you could get music to play on your MySpace page? Like when somebody would come to MySpace, there'd be music playing and you'd base it on like what your mood was or what was going on.

Caity: 8:21

Do you remember any of your songs?

Kristen: 8:23

No, I wish I did because I feel like that would add to the nostalgia. Do you?

Caity: 8:30

Do those still exist? Have you tried to go back and find your old Zenga or MySpace?

Kristen: 8:36

So, my MySpace, I can't, and I have tried multiple different ways and I can't find it. My zenga, I did, I was able to get there one time. And it didn't exist, but I was able to like download like a cashed file or something of all of my old journals. And postings. This was within the past. Hmm. Eight, seven or eight years.'cause we were in the house we're living in now. It was around that time. When I downloaded it I don't know where I saved it to. I don't know if I put it on a thumb drive or a external hard drive. Like I had it at one point in recent time. I don't know where it is now. I'd written about, when my grandfather died dealing with that. There was good stuff on it. Not the death, but like you could see me in my, late twenties dealing with life. Can you still see your MySpace?

Caity: 9:26

You know, I want to say circa 2020, height of COVID boredom. I was like, Hmm, I wonder what I can find about myself. I went down a rabbit hole similarly, I hitchhiked around Europe. Playing hooky for a semester when I was supposed to be. Taking study abroad classes. Oops. And I kept loosely, yeah, loosely kept a blog, at that time. And it was like a blogger or something like that? Yes. Could not find the bag, could not find my MySpace. But I do remember the songs I had on there.

Kristen: 10:01

What were they?

Caity: 10:03

Oh, I apparent. I, you know, apparently I was just a like. I went through a sad girl emo phase.

Kristen: 10:10

I was gonna guess you had an emo phase

Caity: 10:14

who did not have an EMO phase.

Kristen: 10:16

I think we all had an emo phase,

Caity: 10:20

but I think the longest running song was Fix You by Coldplay. Really? And there was also a lot of snow patrol. Yes. What happens to them?

Kristen: 10:34

I have. There was a lot of good music, and it's interesting to see the ones that lasted and the ones that fell off. I'm not sure that the best ones are the ones that stayed, because I think there's a lot of ones that may have been better that aren't in the limelight anymore. We can save that for another conversation.

Caity: 10:53

That's what I'm saying. We can,

Kristen: 10:54

we can bring up different bands play their music and say if they had more potential, like it, it could be a whole, like we will break it down and it'll be amazing. So listeners come back for that episode once we do it. Okay, so my space, so we're going back 20 ish years or whatever, probably. 20. Yeah, probably. Well, let's say 20 ish. All over. So things have come a long way since then. Can you talk about how your feelings or relationship towards social media have changed or maybe how your usage, yeah, let's go with that first. So where are you now in your social media journey? Which ones do you use or prefer?

Caity: 11:36

Yeah. So, girl, this conversation was. Incredibly timely because earlier this week I pulled the nuclear option and I wholesale deleted my Instagram. Really? And I had, well over, a decade of my life documented.

Kristen: 11:56

You deleted or just inactivated.

Caity: 12:00

When you go to delete it, it walks you through about 10 problems. Like, are you sure you don't wanna just press pause. Yes. You have to click, like, no, please delete. And then it's like, but are you sure? Wow. You know what I both say, it does give you an option. And this could just be like a, you know, a privacy law. They completely. Pull everything, every image, comment, like, connection, into a massive zip file. Depending on how long, you've used the site it took five hours for meta to compile this zip file so you do have all your stuff

Kristen: 12:38

then.

Caity: 12:41

I haven't. Okay. I haven't even opened it. No, that's fine. And I guess it's only been a few days, but,

Kristen: 12:46

so yeah. Let's, let's, let's peel this back a little more Katie. Do you wanna tell us why this decision happened? Was there something leading up to it? Was it just a random thing? Like how are you feeling about it now?

Caity: 13:01

Always complex questions. With anything wise, it's usually not just one thing. It's had a growing stickiness, internally for a while.

Kristen: 13:12

Mm-hmm.

Caity: 13:12

And it was multi-pronged. One prong was, it was sucking so much time out of my life, especially when Instagram got videos and reels. So many times I would find myself at one 30 in the morning with my phone three inches to my face, and I'm, mm-hmm. I've been doom scrolling. Yep. And I don't even have learned anything. I haven't connected with any human. I have just wasted two, three hours, thumbing through short video clips, now I'm, and I completely forgot what it was. It was like rage vape or something? Yes. Even if it's just 15 seconds, it's something preposterous, someone doing something stupid funny or horrendous or it's like they're, they've gotten so effective at getting so quickly to elicit a physiological response in you. I did not like. What I was seeing in myself from that, have you ever used those apps that's like, you know, a time constraint and it says, I think the app itself has one, but there's. Like external apps as well. Yes, you can try and limit your own usage. Have you ever used one?

Kristen: 14:24

Haven't used an app, but on my iPhone I can set screen time limits I set my limits for Facebook and Instagram to each be an hour a day or something. But it pops up with a warning that says like, oh, you've exceeded your time. Do you want extra 15 minutes, an hour, or just ignore it there have been times, especially on weekends, I ignore it. I work very hard on boundaries, and I'm good with boundaries in real life. I am not good with boundaries on my phone. It's a struggle, I was only scrolling a little bit before. I went to sleep and now it's what time? It sucks you in. I have several thoughts on this for the longest time I thought Instagram was the safe one because you know, oh, it's just pictures, it's just videos. But the way that algorithm is. Built that it bases things on, like knowing you and what you'll like, or like you said, you know, or you don't like things that going to elicit an emotion and that make you to want to just keep scrolling. Like they keep feeding it to you like a drug and you get the. Like a dopamine or serotonin hit or whatever, like every time you see something I hate it because I feel like they are controlling me and this isn't one of those, like AI is taking over the world conspiracy. Like I just feel like the way they have built it so much is messing with. My head I feel like I'm not in control anymore, which then bothers me. So I have been trying more to limit myself on it. My husband and I used to send reels to each other all the time. We joked it was our love language. It was funny, I was like, you haven't sent me any reels lately. Do you not love me anymore? And he's like, I'm really sick of watching stuff. Like all these, content creators they're all making the same stuff. There's nothing new or original or creative anymore. And he's like, I just don't wanna support that. I don't wanna look at that and share that because I'm, over it. I'm like. You're right. Even if you look on YouTube, which I know, not a social media, just a media, but there are so many videos.

Caity: 16:17

Was social media.

Kristen: 16:18

It may be. I mean, you're right, it probably is. It's long form content. But a lot of those content creators, are doing the same thing. There's certain genres and if you're in this genre, you have to do this specific video. I feel like it's not the creative platform it used to be.

Caity: 16:35

It's formulaic.

Kristen: 16:37

Yes,

Caity: 16:37

I hear you

Kristen: 16:38

that frustrates me'cause I don't like feeling. On Facebook I can scroll several swipes and won't see a single post from a person I'm connected to. It will be a sponsored post, an ad, something from a group company or page Facebook thinks I'll like. They're sneaky, a lot of times I am interested but that's not the point. Facebook is supposed to be a place where I connect with friends, social media intended to create connections, has made us. The least connected we have been because we are like, oh yeah, we're friends with, we're friends on Facebook, we're friends on Instagram. I know what's going on in that person's life, and meanwhile we never actually talk to that person or are in an actual friendship with them in the real world. Okay. I'll pause

Caity: 17:24

thoughts. Yeah, and that's a perfect segue because one of the other prongs, was deleting my Instagram. I had, 300 friends or whatever on Instagram. there were people who maybe we, you know, I don't know, met in casting on a trail somewhere or something, which like cool. There were a lot of people I literally, never met. It was like a weird mutual, like, oh, we both know this person. Yes. And our content showed up in each other's feeds but also, I don't know that what we put on social media is a true reflection of ourselves and our lives. It's kind of like you were saying, we feel like because we see snippets of people's lives we know them. Mm-hmm. But if someone just saw my Instagram feed, I can confidently say that does not qualify them as knowing me. I have to remind myself it's the same toward other people.

Kristen: 18:27

Yes, it totally does, because it brings in that authenticity. Piece. You can be whoever you wanna be on the internet. And I remember even back, you know, going back to MySpace days and before on a OL instant messenger in chat rooms. Like you could be anyone you wanted to be. And then MTV had the whole show about catfish. Right. And people were catfishing.'cause you could be whoever you wanted to be online. It doesn't have to be that extreme. But on Facebook and Instagram, you're showing the best of your life. In some ways, you could be creating a separate persona and it's not real. Even if you are interacting with friends online, if it's not a real version of them, who are you actually interacting with and who is it benefiting?

Caity: 19:11

Exactly. And honestly, Kristen, I think that second question is the most important. It's the why. Why are we here? Why are we doing this? What is it displacing? I haven't, I'm gonna. I don't know. Drop an embarrassing, shameful truth bomb. I have not read a book in a year. I'm not blaming social media. I can hear it in your gasp. And trust me, I feel,

Kristen: 19:37

I feel the same shame. I feel like I need to rescue you. Can I bring some books to you? I'll fly out to you right now. I will bring you all the books. I will read to you, Katie, you need to read.

Caity: 19:50

Here's the fun part I probably have a stack of 25 books I cannot wait to read. But for lots of reasons we can get into that another time. But I think a big enough chunk, one of the bigger contributors. How's then the nighttime doom scroll? I get into bed, I'm like, oh, let me just check something real quickly. Yes. Three hours later, it's

Kristen: 20:16

It's a SpongeBob voice four hours later. Like a hundred percent because it shame my eternal shame voice. No, but I mean, I am a reader, but I struggle with that because it's like, oh, I don't have much time. I'll just get on Instagram instead of opening my book it's. Easy, but not fulfilling. Like you feel good in the moment and then don't, like people on drugs or alcohol they get their hit, they feel good, and then like it comes down and they're like, oh, that really wasn't that good. Like this is, I feel like that's kinda, which again, I believe it's all a drug and they're making us addicted. Yes.

Caity: 20:53

Yes, girl. It's total. You just feel like, even just physically, I just feel so disgusted with myself. Yes. And like about like a lack of control. And I, I like to think that I have, am self disciplined. I feel like I make, I generally make good choices, in the best interest of my health and others. I care about my community and I'm a good steward, but for whatever reason, it's that drug effect. You succumb to this thing that is designed to do exactly what it's doing to me. And I think that was kind of the, the ultimate thing with leading my Instagram was this is not something that I can overcome. There are narratives we tell ourselves to feel good about decisions that maybe we know deep down are not in our best interest. And one of them for me was like, oh, but like I, I get to see pictures. I get to stay better connected with my friends and with people. But since deleting it, I bought stationary. I got a new color ink for my fountain pan, and I have started writing letters, writing cards, and my new goal to keep connections even with people far away, is to send at least one card or letter to someone once a week.

Kristen: 22:14

I love that idea. I often send cards because writing letters and cards is a lost art. My grandma used to do that, she'd write out cards and send them to her friends, I want us to get back to that. I'm ready to be like a lady of the fifties sending out letters and inviting friends over for tea and catching up in real life because that is so much more meaningful than the fake and false relationships we have via social media. Now I have to ask you I know it's only been a few days since you've deleted it, but are you having any fomo? Are you afraid you're missing anything?

Caity: 22:53

Zero. Fomo. Honestly, I haven't thought about it much. Let me reset the stasis around my deletion of, Instagram. I have not posted anything. Since this really cool sea kayaking trip, around Vancouver Island

Kristen: 23:11

Ooh,

Caity: 23:11

like late summer, early fall, I, posted some pictures and some stories from that, but I had not posted anything since, and I had uninstalled the app from my phone maybe three months ago. Although it's easy to log on. You're on your phone. So that's what I had been doing and continuing to dooms for a long. But I think because I had kind of, in a way weaned myself a little bit before going Kohl's, Turkey, like it was less of a, you know, I don't know. A big deal.

Kristen: 23:53

No, I like that. That's'cause that's what I've wondered too, like could I give it up? Yes. Would I miss it? Maybe. I think I could delete Instagram fine because I'm kind of over the stuff there. I worry about Facebook because there's different activities I follow. Like my son's school, if they post stuff there's probably other ways to get the information, I wouldn't be missing out that much the benefits would probably outweigh any of the downsides to it. But you brought up something too about talking about how you hadn't posted for a while, and this is something else I have to thought about, like when I, when I post something now I focus more on why am I posting this? Because there's so many, some people that will like document their entire life and that's how Facebook started too. Remember the status Kristen is, watching TV or whatever. It was tracking everything real time. Yes it was. And there are people that still treat it that way, not necessarily with the I am doing. Here's the pictures of all the things I did this weekend. Here's the things from this, and there's a lot of stuff all the time, and I have to ask myself like, why are they posting that? And again, disclaimer, I'm people who do this. I'm not saying there's anything negative towards you by any means. You do. You post what you want. Free country, free speech, but for me, where my head is at and how I know how I feel about these sites, I start to wonder are you doing that for attention? Is it an insecurity? That could be me projecting because I know I've been in that place where I'll post something if I wanna get a reaction, like, oh, I'm feeling cute. Let me post those pictures so people will tell me how pretty I am. So I've made a more conscious effort in the past year to be more, cautious about what I share and keeping my life more private. Some of the things I share are quotes, leadership quotes from a page or maybe an event I'm going to that I want somebody to come to. So I'm just more cognizant of what I'm sharing and why do you feel that that was something you were doing before you cut everything? What are your thoughts?

Caity: 25:52

Maybe I hadn't. Thought about it as clearly and articulately as you laid it out. I think I was feeling a lot of that. One thing you mentioned, reminded me, I haven't seen it so much in the past few years, but do you remember the kinds of posts that did not come out you were so emotionally like, um, what's the right word? Like mysterious? Yes. Like there was this weird, quasi urgent quasi serious mystique around this post.

Kristen: 26:25

There was a name for it too.'cause you had post, because people post something didn't really, I think there was, and I'm not gonna remember if I remember it later, I'll put it in. But there, because I think there was something for them, maybe vague book posts.'cause they were vague. But it was people like oftentimes a cry for attention. Because they wanted you to ask what was going on. They wanted you to pull the information. Yes. And then it's just like, oh my gosh. But I would get sucked into not the asking'cause I would go the other way. I'm like, alright, let me start looking at your profile your sister-in-law's profile your sister-in-law's aunt's profile and your sister-in-law's aunt's dog's profile. Lemme piece together what's going on in your family drama. Again, just wasted more time.

Caity: 27:08

That is amazing.

Kristen: 27:10

Oh my

Caity: 27:11

Deleted IG keep LinkedIn because

Kristen: 27:15

I was gonna ask about that because I have seen you on LinkedIn. Do you have a different opinion on LinkedIn or professional social networking sites?

Caity: 27:24

Oh, I, I, hate is a strong word according to the plain white tee. Hate is a strong word, but I really, really, really don't like it. Honestly, I think LinkedIn is all the same. I think I've been using LinkedIn as a surrogate for no Instagram because I've more time.

Kristen: 27:45

you've replaced one vice with another. Here's the thing. I don't think link. Oh, terrible. I don't think LinkedIn's algorithm is at the level that Meta has made theirs on Facebook and Instagram. Because I can scroll a little bit on LinkedIn and be like, I'm bored. I love business stuff. Leadership. Like I love the stuff it's showing me, but to me. LinkedIn is almost more fake than Facebook because they're, you've got all these people, these long posts that you can tell. Chat, GPT probably helped them write, and again, no shade. Love me some chat. GPT Oh, it, it helps me on my podcast planning, but when a post and be like, this is, I can tell this isn't your original thought.

Caity: 28:25

Yes. And there's other telltale signs of chat, GPT, which I'm sure you can name them off.

Kristen: 28:33

Why don't you share with our listeners?

Caity: 28:36

Some people are more savvy with using ai, especially a tool like Chat two pt, especially in their work lives. It can be in a, a massive tool which can act like, you know, drastically. Increased productivity, especially in a marketing role where you are, you, you are creating a lot of content. Yep. But when you use it enough, you start to see rep a lot of repetition. Mm-hmm. Like, they like to group things in three. Yep. A lot of M dashes. Yep. And you know, if you don't give it, if you don't feed it enough information. At the top and if you don't spend enough time editing it not just for, you know, to scrub it of those telltale signs, but to make sure that there's some humanity or like some humanness, some novel thoughts, some novel aspects that is yours or your company's then why bother? Exactly.'cause we all can see when people just. Copy and paste right out of there because it maybe even detracts. So many thoughts on that one.

Kristen: 29:49

That's a whole episode in itself too. I know.

Caity: 29:53

I hope somebody's writing down these ideas

Kristen: 29:55

for us.

Caity: 29:57

At the top before we started recording, you said if anything needed to be taken out we could put it in there. So feel free to take that one out.

Kristen: 30:05

I think we're amazing. so much good material for many episodes.

Caity: 30:09

Wait, wait. So back to Facebook to round off the final prong. Had to do more with Facebook. And Instagram. I'm glad the plane has, taken us back to facebook because it really like a lot of the icky feeling that I was talking about in the beginning that has been kind of eing and growing has to do with how we so freely and quickly give up so much of ourselves. In the name of convenience and you know of, sorry, guise of connectedness social media a lot of, not all the time, but at least in my personal experience much of the time, was just like, yeah, like using my data, using my dwell time. How long I'm looking at content, even if not clicking or, or interacting with it. All of that, going into this model, this algorithm that they are profiting a lot on. Mm-hmm. And they're pretty freely and indiscriminately, selling their services to people who do not have the best interest of humans societies and the importance of connecting. Some are more interested in dividing or strengthening a certain subset of a society that is not healthy for the whole.

Kristen: 31:34

Mm-hmm.

Caity: 31:35

Especially lately. It was kind of like the butterfly that broke the camel's back. Is that the phrase?

Kristen: 31:44

You just invented something amazing. I think I've heard it. Like the straw that broke the camel's back. But I think the butterfly is better.

Caity: 31:54

It's too ugly to be a butterfly, so we'll call it a straw. It's not very nice thing itself, but, but oh, sorry. Yeah, you, I think you get the point. It was the final thing, and it made me, calm I wasn't anxious just like, now's the time. It's keeping me from doing things I love, like dedicating more time to reading.

Kristen: 32:16

Mm-hmm.

Caity: 32:17

At one point it was a net positive effect on my life social life and wellbeing. But over the decades, it morphed into something quite. Opposite. Going back to your question of why I didn't have a why anymore,

Kristen: 32:36

Yeah.

Caity: 32:36

To keep me doing that I didn't want to contribute, in any way.

Kristen: 32:41

I think you've made good points, about how they're gathering data and building large models and you're getting nothing out of it, but they're using that data nothing is ever free. Somebody pays for it, and if you are not paying for it, you are the payment Facebook has been free because the user doesn't pay for it. But the user is paying for it in all the other things, like the time, energy. Mm-hmm. The distraction, broken relationships, everything you are putting into it, all that energy is what they're taking. Yeah. And I almost picture it like some movie where an alien gets its life by sucking all the energy from all the humans and like just picture the alien as like a giant cell phone or social media platform. Yes. That's what it is and we are allowing it I think we've hit the bubble now because I don't think your experience. Is a one-off. A lot of people are at that point and they're like, what am I really getting out of this now? We're not gonna go super political but I believe there are, organizations, entities, groups that are using it. For their specific platform and maybe twisting ideas, thoughts, information into a way to skew different people's realities. Like trying to, trying to say what I'm thinking, but I don't know that I'm getting the right words. Some people are still going to be sucked into it. And there's some people like you that are like, no, screw this. I'm done. I'm out. You're not taking my time anymore to build your alien in the sky model.

Caity: 34:18

Yeah, absolutely. I'm definitely, reading between the lines and it's, I, I think it's, you know, it's, I know it's, it's not just a feeling or an inkling that that's happening. There's data and research to back bob up and it's not even, you know, organizations within the US, which is, I think, the biggest user group. But outside influencers as well. Think we should all spend some time thinking about, and how that may or may not be affecting the content we see, and how we feel

Kristen: 34:51

yeah. A hundred percent. I wanna go back to a 1950s life where I am writing letters to my friends and I am having tea and I don't know what's going on in the world unless it's on my nightly news or the radio broadcast in the evening. That's, that's the world I wanna live. I'm not saying I want to live under a shell or not know what's going on. I'm still interested in current events but there's so much information overload you don't need to know what's going on in every part of the world, every second how does that benefit your life? Focus on what's in front of you, where your energy is being spent, the people you are around, and just focus on that instead of all the other things.

Caity: 35:31

Yeah, wholeheartedly agree. I think that could be a whole series of podcasts in and of itself, because there's so many, you know, layers and nuances in that. But yes, because so much of that bigger picture is outside of our control. And if we, okay. Sorry, this is a, I'll make this quick, but I think it No, you're fine. Relevant. My high school graduation, what's. You know, like the, the, the fog machine is, you know, blowing across the stage and we're now like, transporting back to a long, long time ago. And, little baby Katie's walking across the stage getting her high school diploma and the, the speaker. Speaker told a quick story about, you know, this, this person who tried to change the world. And they tried all these things and failed and were sad. They were like, fine, if I can't change the world, I'll change, my country. They tried and did all these things. They spent time and energy, then failed and felt terrible. They were like, fine. I'll just try and change, you know. It kept going down and down and down until just like, you know, the people around me. You know, I don't think I have to fill out the rest of the story, but by just focusing on the people around them, they did make some tangible, meaningful differences and it had somewhat of a butterfly effect outward. And this story hopefully illustrates the point that you used the butterfly properly.

Kristen: 36:58

Yeah, that was butterfly. That's the butterfly one. And you know what, Katie, I think that's a fantastic way to wrap this one up because I think that really is the moral to the story. Social media was created to connect with people meet new people learn new things and build relationships. And it had its time and place but we've gotten to a place now. Life has changed. And now I think it is more important that we downsize our online lives and get away from that and really focus on those around us, our community, things we control rather than giving energy to everything else that's the moral of the story.

Caity: 37:37

Beautiful.

Kristen: 37:38

As we wrap up, any final comments from you or any maybe a challenge for listeners or any advice you would give people who also want to end their social media toxic relationships,

Caity: 37:52

toxic

Kristen: 37:52

relationship with social media?

Caity: 37:55

There we go. You had brought up a quote before and it reminded me of another quote that is. Pertinent. There's a musician called Joe Pug, and I got to see him live a few months ago, he has a song, and part of the lyrics are, the more you buy, the more you're bought. The more you're bought, the less you cost. That has always stuck with me, maybe from a consumerism point of view, but I think. By participating in social media, I'm not sure if we're the consumer or the product. We're a bit of both for all my talk of, trying to divest, its my life. I've actually met a boy on Facebook. Really? Yeah. Well, he's a man. Thank you for clarifying. we're going on a kayaking trip in a couple weeks, we've met in person once, but this will be our first like, thing doing something together.

Kristen: 38:54

I love that so much. And what an ending while we've been bashing social media for the better half of this. I know. I love it. There was a happy ending.

Caity: 39:07

Yeah. Like, you know,

Kristen: 39:10

Fantastic.

Caity: 39:11

yeah, it's an interesting one. Well, Katie, thank you so much. This has been

Kristen: 39:16

a complete and utter joy. It has been super fun, and I think we have proven to ourselves and the listeners that you are going to be back many more times because we have so many things that we need to talk about.

Caity: 39:30

I've got a list. Super excited and super hope. Looking forward to it. All right. Thank you so much. Awesome. Well, until we talk again then Katie. Bye. Sounds good.

Kristen: 39:41

That's a wrap for this week's episode. Thanks so much for spending time with me. Until next time, be honest with yourself. Ask the hard questions, and remember, you are not alone on this journey.