Kristen: 0:36

Hey everybody. Welcome back. It's another installment of our Virtual Book Club podcast where we are reading perfect is Boring and Tastes like Kale by Jess Johnston. I am so excited as always to have Kelly and Alexis joining me again. Hi, Alexis. Hello. Hey, Kelly. Hey everyone. All right, so we are wrapping up the book today because we are going over the final chapters and epilogue. So the lies we covered in this portion of the book are lies, 10 through 14. If you haven't read the first part of the book and you wanna go over the earlier lies, you can listen to our episodes before this, but it's not required. You are welcome to join and stay with us here today because even if you haven't read the book, we're gonna talk about a lot of different parts about the book and our lives, and it'll still be relatable and entertaining for you. So lies 10 through 14. Were lie number 10. I'm a junior varsity adult and the best spot for me is usually the bench lie number 11. It's better not to try than to mess up in front of everyone. Lie number 12, I can't do that because no one does that lie. Number 13, if I can't go big, I should just go home lie. Number 14. It's better to dream small because then I won't be disappointed. Okay guys, so those are the lies. Which ones resonated with you the most this time?

Kelly: 2:19

Definitely number 10 for me.

Kristen: 2:21

Alexis, did one stand out more to you?

Alexis: 2:25

Number 13, if I can't go big, I shouldn't do it. Mm-hmm. I think that one,

Kristen: 2:33

I think mine was line number 11. It's better to not try than to mess up, but I also had a bunch of highlights also for number 12. I can't do that because no one does that. Wow. We're gonna do it in a little bit of a different format this time. In previous episodes we've talked some questions overall and then talked about chapters specifically. But this time I was hoping we could just ask some questions about each of the chapters and go through them together. So the first one, line number 10. I'm a junior varsity adult, and the best spot for me is usually the bench. The question for this I have for you guys is have you ever felt like you're just on the bench in your own life? And what contributed to that feeling?

Kelly: 3:20

Yeah, so this chapter resonated with me the most. I used to think it was just because I'm in my twenties. Like everybody feels like I'll use the term junior varsity adult in their twenties. Like we don't really have a clue what we're doing. Everyone feels that way. Now I'm going on 33 and I'm thinking maybe this is a thirties thing too. Maybe this is just always how it's gonna be. I just sometimes stop and think, am I really the adult here in this situation? When I was younger I would look up to different adults in my life who were, in their thirties or forties and they just seemed so put together. They knew how to handle life and now I'm like, now I am them. And I feel like I don't have a clue. One situation though to kind of get back to your question, an example that came to mind when I was listening'cause the chapter was work related. So about two and a half years ago, I got thrown into what was a brand new position for my company. I had been with the company for a lot of years and had worked in all aspects of the department. This was a brand new position they had created and I stepped into it I really liked what I was doing, but it required more decision making than some of my previous positions had. And I felt. Very unqualified. And so I questioned myself a lot. I always felt like I needed to get the okay from my boss before I made any decisions or said let's do things this way that was a situation where I just very much felt like I don't belong in this position. I'm not qualified. What if I mess up? What if I make the wrong decision? It wasn't until my boss was about to leave the company and she had a conversation with me and just told me, she was like, I can tell you're afraid to make decisions. But you shouldn't be. And she said that she was confident in my discernment and that I needed to take that and run with it. So that was a major shift, in my work from then on, taking her advice. That was just an example that came to mind for that one.

Kristen: 5:59

That's a good example. And I wanted to chime in on the first part you said about not feeling like you're an adult and how when you were younger and you saw people at that age, they seemed more adulty. I feel like that so much, like my perception of age is so flawed because if I watch an old episode of friends, I'm still like, oh, they're adults. They're younger than I am at this point.

Kelly: 6:23

See, this is still going on in your forties?

Kristen: 6:25

I don't know if it's for everybody in their forties, but there's sometimes in my life when adult things happen, like we've had to get our AC fixed, our roof checked and I'm like, I sure hope an adult shows up soon to, fix all these problems even making doctor's appointments and stuff, like, isn't there somebody who can do this? For me. I believe there's services you can pay to do it, but there's times like that where I agree, you know, it's a junior varsity thing because clearly there's somebody on the main team that can do these things and can do them better. And I am not prepared for that because I am not a grownup yet.

Kelly: 6:59

Yes. That's exactly how I feel on any given day of my life

Alexis: 7:04

you're not alone. I frequently at these moments of, I almost have a junior in high school, he's a sophomore right now, just finishing up his sophomore year. And I think, how is that possible? I'm still 19, you know? It's ridiculous. We just went through a situation with our house, like the electrical I don't even know what to do. Isn't there an adult around that can figure this out? Ironically though, I have found in times like this, these are the times where I do lean on my grandma for wisdom or my parents. I have called my dad for more advice in the past six months than I have anybody else, which is probably really good because I think they have the wisdom to tell us. It has made me feel a little more confident to be able to address these weird issues. When you get to late thirties and forties everything starts breaking in your house and you're like, that's a really complicated problem and I should have the money to fix this, but I'm not really sure I do. What are we gonna do? I don't know. Maybe that's just us.

Kristen: 8:08

No, I feel like that's, totally legit. And I actually feel better that it's not just me because sometimes. My son, he's 12, so he's not even that old. But I feel the same thing sometimes. I'm like, I'm not old enough to have a 12-year-old, by numbers, I am well old enough to have a child older than that. But it's just like, like you said, like there is so many times where I'm like, it's so crazy that here I am like 27 and I have a 12-year-old. That's crazy. I'm not 27, but that's kind of where mentally I am.

Kelly: 8:40

Yeah. So my son is seven and I think back to when I was about his age and my perception of my parents or different adults in my life I think, wow, they were so much more adulty than I am now with a 7-year-old. What am I missing? When am I gonna. Finally feel like I'm a real adult.

Kristen: 9:05

And that's what she actually has. I'd highlighted the line and it said, we don't feel like real adult women because there aren't any. So she starts by saying, the standards are a joke. We don't feel like grownups, we don't feel like real adult women because there aren't any. So it made me think are we all like this? I know we, the three of us are a small population of, all American women, but it's gotta be more than just the three of us. So does everybody feel this way? Are we all just not real? Not real women? Not real adults. Like what is this? Yeah, so maybe it's like midlife crisis. I don't know. It could be a midlife crisis that we're all in denial of.'cause I'm like, there's no way I'm midlife. The other thing I'd highlighted is she had a quote and she said, people who shoved their school papers in their backpack with no binder, folder, et cetera. Where are you now? I may or may not have been that person. I was probably that person. I would have all the folders and notebooks, but I would just keep stuffing stuff in my backpack. It had so much stuff. I'm the same with my purse now. Since I've switched to a cross body, fanny pack I can't fit as much stuff in it. But if, when I used to carry a purse, it would just have so much stuff in it. Here's a receipt, a gum wrapper, all the stuff. So maybe my life is falling apart on some level, but whatever.

Alexis: 10:26

But if you're like me, it's not organized and stuff. You know where that paper is. And if somebody moves it from the mess of the papers on your desk, you're gonna be frustrated because you know it's there. Yes. Like, where'd that go? I just, I just left

Kristen: 10:39

it here.

Alexis: 10:40

I know I left it here. I know it's in this pile. That's good enough. Don't move it kind of a thing. So yeah, I don't know.

Kristen: 10:48

Well, moving on or did you guys wanna share anything else about chapter 10 before we move on? Okay. So lie number 11, it's better not to try than to mess up in front of everyone. So I have two questions for you guys on this one, but I'll ask them separately. Can you share a moment when fear of public failure stopped you from trying something?

Alexis: 11:12

How about any group activity ever? Like I'm not involved in group activities. No, I don't like them.

Kristen: 11:21

Like what kind of group activities? If people are like, Hey, do you wanna go on this skiing trip with us? What kind of group activities are you talking about?

Alexis: 11:31

Probably when I was a lot younger, even just doing kickball, I'm not joining kickball with you it was different if I signed up for a sport and like I did something like that. But just people that you don't normally do stuff, I probably wouldn't do that. But a, a ski trip now? No. Probably in the past I would have done something like that. I guess the biggest thing that I remember is like youth group activities. If there was games and stuff, I was not doing them.

Kristen: 11:59

Okay. I see what you're saying.

Kelly: 12:03

Yeah. I think about, again, work, which maybe is lame, that everything in this part of the book I like related to that. But, again, like specifically thinking about when I stepped into my current position, there were instances where, like maybe on a meeting, you know, conversation was being had and I didn't necessarily need to provide input. And so I absolutely was not going to because I don't wanna say something and sound dumb or like misunderstand and say the wrong thing. Or if there was like a scenario where, you know, there was this thing to be done, but. It wasn't necessarily something I had to do. I am not gonna be the one to volunteer to help do it because what if I mess it up? Or what if they don't like the way I do it? I kind of sat in that mentality for a while when I came into this position, but I think it's something that I've definitely grown away from.

Kristen: 13:13

I can see that in meetings too, especially depending on the level of people who are there. It's not just about not sounding stupid, but if you misunderstood something and say something, they're like, that's not actually what's going on here. I can totally see that. What,'cause I've also seen the opposite, where there's sometimes people in meetings who clearly don't care about how they're viewed and they will just ramble on about whatever, whether it is relevance or not. And again, like I don't wanna be that person. So a lot of times I will stop before I even say something in a meeting and be like, is there any value added of what I'm going to say? Because I also think sometimes meetings are a waste of time and I don't wanna waste anybody's time. Right? And so I'm not going to say something if it's not going to further what we're actually trying to do. I hate when people say something just to say something I don't know that I have a great example of a time when a fear of public failure stopped me from trying something. I usually will try a lot of things. I will take the opposite of this question where, the fear was there and I tried something anyway, like we've talked about how, I'm a dancer. When I saw my son's first dance recital and I saw women even older than I am dancing, I was like, oh, I could do that. And there was that little part in my back of my head that's like, you've never danced before. Like, could you really do that? It's, tap and jazz and tap is a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be. So there, and you know, we do a recital and there was that fear that what if I can't do it? What if I looked dumb, but I did it anyway? And there's still some times where like. There's people I know in the audience and like I think what are they gonna think about me? I don't know. But it's kind of getting past that and doing it anyway, which I think is where we all want to be. I can't say I do that with everything in my life, but it was something I was thinking about even though there was that fear of, what if I mess up? What if I can't do this? What if I look dumb? What if people don't like it? I did it anyway because my desire to dance outweighed my fear of failure or what people would think of me.

Kelly: 15:25

Do you think, like, so you mentioned the about like dancing and the people you know, being in the crowd. Do you feel like sometimes with things you have a harder time putting yourself out there? On display in front of people that you do know versus putting yourself on display for a whole group of people. You don't.'cause I feel like sometimes it's scarier to do it in front of people that you do know.

Kristen: 15:51

Yes. And I love that you bring that up because that's kind of what it is. I will perform in a crowd of strangers all night long, like I'm a performer. I'm an actress. I will do that. And I will also do it in front of people who I am very close with. Like you guys are some of my really close friends in real life. I'll do that all day long. It's those ones in the in-between phase. Like I know who you are, or like, you are the mom of one of my son's friends and I don't know what you think about me and maybe you'll be judging me for something. And I think that's kind of where it is. Like it's definitely people who I know, but I don't know very well. Those are the ones that I have the hardest time because I want to make a good impression. So if I look dumb to them, that's not good for me.

Kelly: 16:46

'Cause I think when it's a group of people, you don't know whether you're dancing in front of them or doing whatever. If you don't know them, it's like this mentality for me where I'm like, who cares if I mess up? I'm never gonna see these people again, they don't know me but when it is people, you know, then there's that fear of the future of like, what are they gonna maybe say to me later about this? Or things like that.

Kristen: 17:09

Well, and Kelly, do you think in the worship team that you joined at your church, this plays into that at all? Like any of the fears you had of getting front of those people? Because I mean, it's a big church, so some of them are strangers, but some of them you may know. How does that affect you there?

Kelly: 17:26

Yeah, I feel that for sure when it comes to singing. I think back to my high school days when, I was on some different teams that would perform it was always a little bit easier, to sing in the places where, we were traveling to different places mm-hmm. And thinking for people that like, we don't, we don't actually go to this school, or we don't go to this church, or wherever we were. It was easier because I didn't have to face those people again. Like, if I mess up, I'm not gonna see them again. It's not a big deal. But yeah, so I definitely had those fears walking into joining the worship team, they just sent me a schedule invite to do my first weekend later in June. I haven't accepted it. I should probably do that. But. Yeah, even just like walking into worship practice, I have those fears because we have a lot of people on the worship team and obviously not everyone is on every single weekend. And so there's some that I know pretty well, and then there's others that I don't know. And so I almost feel like going into practice that I'll be better off practicing with the ones that I don't really know than the ones that I do. It's so crazy.

Kristen: 18:44

No, I don't think it's crazy at all. One of the quotes I'd highlighted in the book was, we may fail. We will definitely make mistakes. We will face disappointments. What if we started doing a better job at honoring our own bravery for facing our fears and stepping into the realm of, I might bomb, but I'm going to try it anyway. That brings me to the other question I have for you guys. What role does vulnerability play in growth and how do you handle embarrassment or mistakes now compared to earlier in your life?

Alexis: 19:17

I think as I've gotten older, I handle it a lot less and I'm willing to do stuff a lot less because I know I'm not going to wanna do that. So I just don't, rather than when I was younger. I'm not really sure that I've actually. Done any better now than ever? I think it's probably just because, as you get older, you know what you like and what you don't like. At least that's how I am. I have just got to the point where I'm not wasting time on certain things if I know that's not who I am or what I'm gonna do. And so it also can be a bad thing because you're not willing to try new things you're kind of inflexible and you don't wanna be embarrassed so you just don't. I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. I just think that that's probably where I'm at.

Kristen: 20:04

What about you, Kristen? I was waiting for you to answer. I'll say I do think as I've gotten older, I care less about what people think I know that's crazy'cause so much of this podcast I've been talking about my people pleasing tendencies and, wanting people to like me honestly it's partly because of the podcast and this book, but I feel like I've been able to let go of some of that. Here's a fun story. Imagine Kristen in sixth grade and we're having to read out loud of our history books for is Old World History. New world. I don't, I don't remember. We're having to read out loud and Australian native people. I pronounce the word aborigine because it is spelled A-B-O-R-I-G-I-N-E. The entire class burst out laughing and I was so embarrassed. I never heard that word before. I didn't know that it's abini'cause like. That's not really how it looks like it should be pronounced. I was mortified, like the kind of embarrassment that I wanted to melt into a puddle and just die right there. Fast forward, I was at a conference and I was walking around vendors just yesterday and there was a word and it was spelled C-O-M-B-I-N-E and I called it Combine, you know, like what athletes go to before they join the draft or whatever it was combined. Their company's name had the word combine in it, and I called it combine. I totally just laughed it off. I was like, combine. Combine whatever, right? And kept talking to them because it wasn't a big deal for me anymore. Like I found that we're gonna make mistakes and we're gonna mess up. And if we can laugh about it like the question says, it's the vulnerability of it. If you can show people that like, Hey, yeah, I said something stupid, whatever. And not make a big deal about it. It shows how human you are. It allows other people to feel more comfortable and not worry about making mistakes. If they see you doing it and being okay with it. I dunno if that's a great example, but that's what popped in my head. So here we are.

Alexis: 22:09

it made me laugh because as I homeschool, I do a lot of reading out loud to my children. And I don't know if it was like my generation, but I actually never learned sonics. It's just like a whole thing. My sister and I were never taught phonics.

Kristen: 22:27

Did you just learn words instead of sounds?

Alexis: 22:30

Yeah, and I picked up reading really quickly. Okay. So I never, like, I was taught a few things, but not anything as a perfect example. When I first started to teach my kids how to read, I asked my husband multiple times, what does it mean by a long vowel sound versus a short vowel sound? Which should be a huge red flag. Like, yeah, you're teaching your kids to read, but I didn't know that, that's not how I learned to read. And so I just said, it says it's being or it doesn't, you know, kind of a thing. Because of that. Sometimes I struggle with pronunciation. My boys think it's hilarious. They laugh hysterically to the point that my middle child is the comedian. When he is impersonating me, that's an impersonation that he does sometimes. They get great enjoyment out of correcting me while I'm reading what the actual word is. They'll come, let me look. No, this is how you pronounce it. So I just had to laugh because this is like a weekly thing at this point I do laugh about it'cause I'm like, yeah, you guys, what is this word? Tell me. I know it in my head and the definition but I cannot necessarily pronounce it well because I did learn phonics.

Kelly: 23:42

That's funny. Have you seen the posts on social media where it talks about oh, where did your anxiety start? Mine started in the sixth grade when we had to read out loud and I would count the paragraph ahead to figure out which one was gonna be on my

Kristen: 23:54

I have seen that like, yeah. Then you don't even know what's going on in the story because you're not paying attention to anybody else reading and then God forbid you're so focused on your part that you miss it and then you're like, oh, sorry. People think you're not in the right place, but you are you're just so focused on waiting. Oh my gosh. I'm like, yeah, bringing up some PTSD.

Alexis: 24:15

but now I love to read out loud. Oh yeah. So I don't know. Maybe it's because all the schooling that I do with my kids, like I actually love to read out loud,

Kristen: 24:23

so I do too. In fact, one of the other jobs I would like to have sometime is an audiobook narrator. So if you're looking for a narrator for your audiobook, please consider reaching out. I can do multiple voices. I think you would be great at that. Thank you. I agree. See, I've got two loyal fans right here. Come find me. Authors. The other line I had highlighted here that I wanted to talk about is she says, you are never going to be perfect. You are not, but you're always going to be the perfect person to live your life fully, wholeheartedly, messily, brokenly, I, for one, am going to celebrate you every single time you enter the arena. Win lose, doesn't matter. Look how freaking brave you are. And I loved that because we are broken and messy and there's all these parts of us, but it's still our life and we should go into it fearlessly and living our best lives regardless of what's going on. Any other thoughts on that?

Alexis: 25:28

I really love that too. And as I'm sitting here thinking about it, I think about how everybody kind of struggles with something different, and if we all struggle with the same thing, it would be really boring. So just being like our individual selves, even with all of our mistakes, owning them, you know, it can be really beneficial for variety in life. But also sometimes those struggles, you. Have people that you have something in common with, but you can also find people that can help you in those struggles. And it becomes like friendship or just a relationship because they can relate in a way that they come alongside you and help you in those ways. So just my little thought on that.

Kristen: 26:13

So line number 12 is, I can't do that because no one does that. How do societal or cultural expectations shape what we believe we can or should do?

Kelly: 26:27

I think this plays into what she's talked about earlier in the book about staying in our lane. Especially when you say the pressure, like feeling pressure about things we think we should do. Social media, is probably the biggest factor in feeling those pressures just because we see something as a trend on whatever platform, it makes us question where we're at and think oh, I should do that. Or maybe you have a different idea and you want to do something, but you feel like you know everyone's life because of social media and you're like, well, no one else is doing that. So. Maybe I shouldn't.

Kristen: 27:17

Yeah. And there's so many things of this one that I wanna say, she talks in the book about, shaving her head and says, I decided I wanted to shave it. She needed a little wild in her life, but she's like, you know, moms aren't supposed to go around with buzz heads or whatever. And it's funny'cause if anybody's listened to the episode Alexis and I did about hair, I also have shaved my head twice and I've had it all kinds of different colors that's not something moms do. Britney Spears did it in 2007, 2008. And it's'cause she was going through something. You don't do that kind of thing. I cannot tell you how many comments I got with my hair cut like that. So many women were like, oh my gosh, you're so brave. Oh, I could never do that. Yeah, you could it literally just took some men's clippers and someone who knew how to use them and your hair is gone. Anybody can do it. It wasn't a bravery thing to me. It was just something, I was sick of my hair and I didn't wanna deal with it anymore. But it's things like that where, people say you're not supposed to do it or it's not because other people aren't doing it. Recently, another podcast episode came out. An episode recently came out where Emily and I were talking about things and I talked about how. I wear sparkly shoes and she wears, glitter in her hair. We do all these different things that, women maybe aren't supposed to do because you're an adult and don't dress like a five-year-old but who makes these rules and why are they rules? Because I think we, they're not like, why can't we just wear whatever we wanna wear or dress, you know, do what we wanna do or, you know, who I don't know. I get so worked up about it because it shouldn't matter. You should be able to express yourself however you want. And just because nobody else is doing it or people think you shouldn't do it, doesn't mean that you shouldn't.

Kelly: 29:06

That reminds me of when I was younger, my grandma, she would say if you're talking and you say well, they say you shouldn't do this, or they say this or that, or people say, and she would always go. Who are they? Who is saying that? Who is people? And then she would say what is normal? Because really what is normal? My normal is probably not your normal. Right. And we'd all be

Kristen: 29:35

boring if we all had the same thing.

Kelly: 29:38

Mm-hmm.

Kristen: 29:39

Alexis, you've been quiet for a minute what are your thoughts?

Alexis: 29:44

I agree with that. I think that like you said, everybody would be boring. I always go back to, it's not always necessarily what I want and I have to consider what does God want in that. But I don't think that means you just don't ever express yourself or can't do certain things because that's not at all what God wants either, because that's just legalism. So, I agree with you on that.

Kristen: 30:08

One of the other lines I highlighted is she says, there was an article published years back listing a bunch of clothes you should no longer wear if you're above 30. I immediately set off to buy scrunchies graphic tees and sparkly pants

Kelly: 30:20

and I was cracking up.

Kristen: 30:21

Yes.

Kelly: 30:22

Because I was like, oh, this chapter is for Christmas.

Kristen: 30:24

It is. I have so many things highlighted, but the best part about that is again, okay, just gimme one more minute that is so me because as I may or may not have mentioned before, strawberry Shore Cake is like my girl and there is so much Strawberry Shore Cake merchandise out right now, like Walmart, target five below Marshalls, literally everywhere. I have so many strawberry Shortcake t-shirts right now that I have acquired yeah. I'm wearing strawberry Shortcake t-shirts and yes, I'm wearing my sparkly shoes. I think I'm going on week three of wearing sparkly shoes to work with every single work outfit, because if I'm gonna be the girl in the sparkly shoes, I have to do it like literally every day. And like, I don't care because this is how I'm expressing myself. In case you forgot, I helped bring back the scrunchie trend a few years ago. Brought back butterfly clips, still working on the zigzag part that's taken a little longer because my hair doesn't naturally do it. It's a lot of work. I also remember there was an article shared on Facebook a few years ago about makeup that people over 40 shouldn't be doing. And again, they're like, oh no, shimmery eyeshadows because you'll look old. Who cares? I like certain things. Certain long eye shadows, right? Stop telling me what I can and can't do with all your made up rules, society and American culture. I'm gonna do me and I'm gonna be happy or try anyway. I. Because the other line too, she said, you weren't meant to be tame. You were meant to be you. You're the only one who knows how to be authentical. You are the only one who knows how to be authentically you. You're the only one who can push against the boundaries and say, Nope, you are the only one who can tap into that little girl inside, who once upon a time, planted her toddler feet solidly in that olive green shag carpet, placed her hands on her hips and said no. When she was told to brush her teeth, there was a time to listen to that adult in our lives. But guess what? You're an adult now too. The varsity kind. Remember? And you get a say. You get the main say, actually. Love it.

Alexis: 32:26

I love that. And I actually have to laugh because my husband frequently says, why can't you just do it? Like if somebody tells you that. That is what it should be, or that is what they say. You will automatically do the opposite. You just cannot be told what it is. There are a lot of things that I will just do the exact opposite. Like if you tell me I'm gonna have to have a baby in a hospital, nope, I'm gonna have my baby at home. That's just the kind of person that I am. I highlighted this from there. The buying gifts for other people on airplanes. I had to laugh at that because I wondered when that became a thing. Like when did children become a burden on flying? I loved her point about that. I'm not buying anything for you just because I have kids on an airplane. You can just get over it and deal with it. It's only for a couple hours, you'll survive.

Kristen: 33:24

Yes. All right. So line number 13, if I can't go big, I should just go home. What small steps have led to big changes in your life? Or how can we celebrate small wins without feeling like we've settled? I like this question because one of the things I highlighted in line number 13 was, I never wanna be a person who thinks that public wins are more important than cooking dinner for my family, or taking my friend out for her birthday.

Kelly: 34:03

Liked that part too. I, I did really like when she said that, and it just reminded me going back to the whole stay in your lane thing, it's easy to feel like we're not doing anything important if we're not out, getting promotions or doing what. Society says are the big accomplishments, but taking care of my house and making sure my son is happy and well taken care of, and that my marriage is thriving those are the huge things. That's what really matters.

Kristen: 34:40

A hundred percent agree. It's all those small things that really add up or sometimes the little things you do are because of the big things in your life. And I think you're right, society and others, social media, always wanna praise all the big things. Your big vacations, your big promotions, your big things of life. But the small ones are so important to be celebrated too. And sometimes just, making it through the day is a win, right? It's not always the big things, depending on where you are in your life and what's going on with your mental, emotional, and physical health. Sometimes those little things really are things that should be celebrated.

Alexis: 35:22

Yeah, I agree. Well, and I, this kind of, this whole topic is gonna kind of relate to actually my work situation in that. I set up goals at the beginning of the year of things I wanted to focus on for our year. And it wasn't vacations, it wasn't, a bunch of stuff that like we would like work on. It was really to spend more time with my kids and my grandma's. I have two remaining grandmas alive and my grandpa had just passed. So those were the things, and unfortunately, when I set up those boundaries, like, I am not gonna be working like all the time because I have to go visit people. It became a problem and I felt horrible, like, okay, I'm not gonna have a job, but it's the past, you know, month, I've realized how really important it was. I gave up a really good paying job. I had a management position. I mean, at one point I had turned out a director position because I did not want the work and I knew what it would be involved and I didn't wanna give up like my family. So, giving up those things, like people probably look at me like I'm crazy and sometimes I look at myself like that when I look at my budget for the month. But seeing my grandmas the past, three months as much as I have, and spending more time with my kids and doing stuff has been so important. And it's more important than the stuff and, being tied to my computer. So I think that if more people realize that they might be a little more content in life too,

Kelly: 37:04

that makes sense.

Kristen: 37:05

Mm-hmm.

Kelly: 37:07

Like not chasing after the big things or feeling like there's more they need

Kristen: 37:13

to keep up with everybody else. Like some of the previous chapters we talked about. Mm-hmm. So the final lie in the book was line number 14. It's better to dream small because then I won't be disappointed. So this question I have is when have you downplayed a dream out of fear of disappointment? What was the result?

Alexis: 37:37

I actually just experienced this so you guys know that I grow dahlias, which are like, it's a whole process to Dahlia growing. I had this dream for years that I wanna be a flower farmer. Unfortunately, I don't think it'll ever happen. And this is where I. Like, I just dream small because it won't. And so this is the first year that I sold Dahlia tubers. One day I wanna have a business where I can sell them, because my grandma grew them and it's something that I wanna do, but I just don't really trust that I can, because there's so much evolved, like with the agriculture, like having to get certified and all that. Plus you just don't have the space. I feel like we need land to do what I need to do. So I don't dream big about it, but I dream small. And surprisingly, my first YouTuber sale went amazing. And I sold out of everything in made like what I thought I my dream for making. So it did as far as. I had a set amount that I potentially could make, and I did make that, but I didn't really like deep down I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna make that much money, but I did. So it was, I don't know. It was eyeopening to see that I probably could do better than what I think. So that's where I'm at with something very recent and a dream.

Kristen: 39:06

I love that though. Look on so many levels. If we can break it down for just a second. First of all, is flower farmer the technical term for it?

Alexis: 39:16

I don't know because if I was a flower farmer, like I would eventually sell to like florist or I would have like my own floral bouquets in addition to selling seeds and stuff. It could be a lot of things, but flower farmers, how I would describe it, because you are farming, you're a farmer of flowers. You're not growing flowers just to let them like in your garden or whatever, be seen like you're growing them to harvest them.

Kristen: 39:40

No, I love that. I think Flower farmer is such a fun title and what I am imagining you is I picture you in this like. Flowy dress and this kind of wide brim hat that you're wearing and you've got a basket full of flowers and you're like walking through the streets like pedaling your wares, like dahlia's for sale, dahlia's for sale. People come to you and buy your Dahlia tubers. And I love all of this for you and I want this to happen. I think you are doing the right thing by starting small because you've gotta put yourself out there and figure out how to do it and build a customer base. You are gonna do amazing things. So don't dream small, dream big. These are just the little steps you're taking to get to the overall place that you wanna be, and you're gonna be amazing. Obviously, and if not, it's okay If I fail, it's okay. This not happen comes of it, it's okay, but we're not gonna think like that. We're gonna be positive and we're gonna manifest it. And you are gonna be the best freaking flower farmer in all of Idaho. I said it, it's gonna happen. Alright, Kelly, how about you? When have you downplayed a dream out of fear of disappointment and what was the result?

Kelly: 40:57

So the main thing that comes to mind here is that when my husband and I got married, we did have a dream of moving to New England one day. In those early years, opportunities didn't arise. Newlyweds in our twenties, we're just trying to survive and figure out, the adulting thing. Eventually the opportunity started to arise. We were in a place where it was like, okay, we could do this. But at that point, we had had our son, he was, four I think at the time. And I started doubting all of those dreams, I just started doubting all of that and had fully made myself believe that. Doing that would be a terrible idea. But praise the Lord. My husband had a bigger vision than I did, and he started pushing for it, I definitely pushed back for a long time. But we ended up doing the thing and she actually talked about that, in this chapter. She talked about how they moved from, Montana to California, I think. And she said you know, people looked at us like we were crazy because usually if you're moving out of state, it's like, oh, because my job is taking me, or we have family there. And she is like, not just because we wanna live near our friends. But that's what we did. I have distant family here, like second cousins but ultimately, when people ask why we moved here, we're like, we just wanted to, we just wanted to live in New England. So we did, my husband found a job and we started taking the steps and things started working out. And I am just so thankful that he didn't decide to accept the fears that I had adopted for us. Making that move a little over two years ago now, it turned out infinitely better than either of us ever dreamed.

Kristen: 43:10

Oh, I love that. And now you're living your best life. Beautiful.

Kelly: 43:15

Listeners, if you follow Kristen's social media page, you will have seen a couple of AI photos of the three of us, which are so fun. But Kristen, when you were just saying like what you were picturing, Alexis looking like in her little dress and out in the street selling flowers, I think you need to make that happen with ai.

Kristen: 43:38

Oh,

Kelly: 43:39

I think that needs to be the next one for sure.

Kristen: 43:41

Love that. Yes, a hundred percent. We will make this happen. I have been having so much fun. My quick little side story, chat, GPT is one of my assistants for, podcast stuff. I call him Charles because I wanted to make it more personal. Charles has helped me come up with some amazing photos of us, and I love sharing them because it really does capture what we're doing. Kelly had one of us in Maine, and I'll probably share that one sometime too. But yes, the AI versions of us, like I said in the post, last week they are living their best lives right now. Who knows the adventures these girls are gonna go on. But I am here for it and we're gonna find out.

Kelly: 44:22

I had to laugh when you shared the second one because it made me laugh. The very first one you posted, you and I were wearing the same color. Headphones and drinking outta the same color coffee mug Alexis had on different colors. In the second one Alexis has her whole little outfit on. And I was wearing an identical pink fuzzy sweater my first thought when I saw those was I look like the annoying little sister that's just trying to look exactly like, well, because like you're my sister-in-law and you're like nine, maybe years older than me. And so that was the first thought that came to my head. I'm like, oh, look at me. The annoying little sister trying to look just like Kristen. That's so funny.

Alexis: 45:04

I have to laugh at these.'cause I don't think they look anything like us. Like there's a little bit of resemblance, but I'm always like. These are just so funny to me. So that's hilarious that you picked up on that.

Kristen: 45:17

Okay, so back to the question at hand real quick. So for my example,'cause let's see, remember what the question was'cause we got so off the rails here for a minute. One of you down played a dream, out of fear of disappointment. What was the result? So before I give my answer, I do wanna share, a quick couple quotes from the book. She said, the real risk isn, in thinking up ideas, it's owning them and pursuing them. It's a whole lot easier to leave our hopes tucked into our imagination, like sacred fantasies that provide sanctuary from our day to day. Choose wisely who you share those fragile ideas with, because too much negativity can crush them before they have a chance. So vulnerable moment arriving. My dream was this podcast and for months and months I put off doing it. My husband was kind enough. He set me up a whole recording studio. We have all the microphones, my soundboard, all the things. And I was scared to do it, for many different reasons. And he kept saying, he's like, we put all the money in that you aren't even using it. You're not doing your podcast, which he meant in the most positive way. Like it was his way of trying to motivate me. And it was hard because, I was so scared of, what if I fail? What if nobody listens? This is a terrible idea. I don't know what I'm doing. Like all those fears in my head. And it kind of downplayed it. Like, you know, it's never gonna be anything big. Nobody's gonna listen to it. Oh, why would I do it? And then I finally came with a plan. I was just like, oh, we're gonna do it. And I've been doing it and I have been absolutely loving it. I always tell people, this is the downplaying part of it. I'm like, well, I'm not like Joe Rogan or anything. And I don't have those kind of numbers. I don't know that I ever will, I don't know that I will even reach monetization status. Like that's not something I see necessarily, kind of Alexis, what you were saying about like, I am never going to have the big, you know, all this land and all these flowers. I'm not gonna have like, bazillions of people listening. But when I look at the stats, I've got a solid listener base and I know that there are a bunch of people who do come back week after week listening to whatever I'm talking about and whoever's here, and I love that. I can't tell you listeners how much I love the support I get from you all. But I do downplay it. For a long time I wouldn't even tell people I had podcasts. I wasn't gonna post it on my Facebook. Like I was, keep my personal one like. I had it all separate. I had everything separated. I was just gonna do it and start it on my own. My husband, who, loves me very much was like, but all of the people on your Facebook, those are your friends and they would wanna support you why wouldn't you share something you're doing with them to get their support? And it like, I wasn't anything I was gonna do because I was so scared of what I was doing that I felt more comfortable. Kelly, to your earlier point about sharing it with complete strangers than people who actually knew me. Mm-hmm. Especially because I knew I was gonna be sharing insecurities and vulnerabilities and I was so afraid of people using that against me. Like people I work with or people that know me are gonna find out that, oh my gosh, Kristen has body issues. Oh, let's go fat shame her. I had all these fears the how far I've come just from starting four months ago. I feel like I'm a completely different person, and now I can talk about it. Like I was at this conference for work earlier this week and I'm telling random strangers I have a podcast asking them if they wanna be on it, which also, if any of you're listening, I totally mean it. And I look forward to talking to all of you, Kevin Heath, Brian, Katie, like any of you, I plan on having you all on my podcast at some point in time in season two. The point is, you've gotta dream big. Like maybe I will be Joe Rogan someday, maybe I will quit my day job and I will be monetized and I will be talking to famous people and getting to just talk with people every day of my life. Who knows it's possible. Why should I keep myself in a box and not think that that is impossible? So that's, that's all I was gonna say about that. So. Thanks for listening, all right. So guys, that gets us to the end of the lies. And we've talked a lot because I have rambled on a lot. But what I would like for us to do is next week's episode if we could talk about the epilogue and kind of some overall things that we learned from the book. Maybe things that we've put into action in our lives some key points that we took from the book, things that we're employing in our lives now, and how it's made us a better person. So before we close this episode, any final comments on any of these lies or anything that we didn't get to talk about that you really wanna share before we close?

Kelly: 49:50

I'm glad to know that no one else feels like a real adult either.

Kristen: 49:55

Yeah. Which is either a really great thing or a really terrible thing

Kelly: 49:58

because

Kristen: 50:00

Alright guys. Thanks Kelly. Thanks Alexis. Look forward to talking to you again next week. Bye guys. Bye.