Kristen: 0:36

Hey everybody. Welcome back. I am so excited about today's episode. We have Kelly with us. Kelly is my friend and sister-in-law, and today we're gonna be talking about some very exciting things that I think are probably need to talk about more, honestly. So Kelly, before we start, do you wanna give a quick intro of who you're

Kelly: 1:01

Yeah. So I am Kelly and living in Maine which was not always my dream, it was my husband's, but now that we're here, I love it and I would not change it. We love that we can be at the ocean in the mountains or down in the city all within a couple of hours, so that's really great. I work full time from home. I homeschool my son and my husband and I have been married for just over 10 years now. Kristen's brother can figure that out. Yeah.

Kristen: 1:31

Yeah, that's me in a nutshell. I love it. So today the topic could really go anyway, but I think what we wanted to cover is slowing down, having personal boundaries, just taking our time and just how we live life. So I think it's important because there's so many societal pressures that are put on us both in media, social media, and just people we know with pressures of what we should be doing or how we should be living, or what things we should be doing, and just a whole lot of stuff. And that, we acknowledge that everybody's experience is different. We're just sharing our perspective on how things like this have affected us. So what do you think, Kelly?

Kelly: 2:18

Yeah, let's dive into it. All right. So where do you wanna start? The topic of slowing down. It's funny that this kind of came up as an episode because as we were ending 2024 I'm not someone who likes to set resolutions necessarily. I used to be, I used to like, just again, societal pressure, right? Yeah.

Kristen: 2:41

I do goals instead. Like I, I skip resolutions and I just set goals. What am I, what do I want to accomplish this year? I'm a goal setter.

Kelly: 2:50

Yeah. And so I've gotten more that way too over the last several years. But this year in particular as we were getting ready to head into January, I didn't, I just, not that I didn't care, it's not that I don't have goals, but I was like, I just really need to revamp life right now. Oh. Because. The end of 2024, I was very burnt out. Mentally and I just came to a place where I was like, I've gotta slow down. And I honestly, yes, physically and just in the, what we're putting on our schedule, but more so for me it was the need to mentally slow down. Yes. And there's a lot, I have a lot of thoughts on that and what that meant for me. But yeah, dive right into that.

Kristen: 3:46

All right, go for it then. Tell us, do you wanna give a little background of how you were so burnout or how you came to where you are now?

Kelly: 3:54

Yeah. Like I said at the beginning, I work full-time remotely. I homeschool my son, he plays multiple youth rec sports throughout the year. And just other activities and maintaining friendships and all of our family is far away and there, there's just a lot of things to maintain. But for me, and this probably plays into the fact that I work remotely. It may be different if I were still working in an office setting which I haven't done for several years now. But I just found that every day I was jumping up and really, especially during the school year, I know homeschool people do their things differently. Some go year round. We do a traditional school year and take a full summer break. So during the school months, I have found that I would wake up in the morning and immediately just immediately be tense because my brain would immediately start rolling into, I've gotta jump up, I've gotta get ready, I've gotta give Ethan breakfast. We've gotta run into the school room and get through school. And all because I had this mindset of I gotta get clocked in. Yeah. I have to do this, and this, because I need to get clocked in now. I'll preface this by saying my schedule is flexible. I do not work set hours. Thank goodness. It's a schedule of, as long as I get my 40 sometimes more hours and for the week, it doesn't necessarily matter when, but to an extent it does. I have to obviously be available to respond to emails and things from clients and people who are working regular hours in the office, but I put a pressure on myself to feel like as soon as my day started, I needed to immediately be available to everyone. Yeah. And so my day was just starting in a frenzy. I was choking down breakfast and just, and then I found, and this is terrible, but I found that I was like really? Losing my patience during school time because in my head I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I just need to go get clocked in. Let's hurry up. You know how to do this, get it done. Yeah. And and then again, I felt this need to get through my hours for the work week. And what I mean by that is I felt like I needed to end my week earlier than five o'clock on a Friday. Because I just felt oh, I should spend like Friday afternoon doing like a field trip or something fun with Ethan and and so I put this pressure on myself to let's just work really long days. And so I did that for a long time. About a year and a half. I, that's how I was spending my weeks. And so I would, like I said, jump up in the morning, rush through the morning routine. We would do school. And then he has independent things that he works on after my portion is done. And then I was rushing into work and I would clock out long enough to cook dinner, or if my husband was cooking, I'd clock out long enough just to eat it. And then I was clocking back in and working until late at night. Oh my goodness. And no. Time for myself throughout my week, all for the sake of having an earlier day on Friday. And looking back, that just seems so silly. I'm like, why am I making myself have four miserable days for the sake of having one good afternoon? And so I had to reevaluate just how I was running our entire routine. And so it, it has taken some practice but we're two months into it now, and I have just really forced myself to just slow down, especially mentally. I had to, put some practical things in place to where I was not waking up and immediately looking at my emails for work on my phone. Yeah. Because that was a thing which immediately made me feel more pressured to like, hurry up and get caught. Yes. And so I had to just lay some rules for myself and it takes practice to follow them. But once you get into some good habits you will see that it is just so much better and your mental load goes down. Not that, I haven't taken anything off of my plate in the last two months. I'm still doing all the things, but I'm just doing them in a way that is. Not so stressful. Not putting so much pressure on myself, understanding like that email will be there when I get to it. And most of my work emails are not things that require immediate reten attention, but for whatever reason, I made myself feel like I needed to immediately reply or just immediately take care of things. And that's really not the case. And

Kristen: 9:14

that's the thing. It's so much self-imposed pressure and I don't, I'm saying it's ourselves'cause we're doing it, but obviously there's a reason we're doing it. And I would venture to say it's those societal pressures, it's be a good worker. To be a good worker, you've gotta be responsive. You've gotta do all the things. You've gotta be ready, you've gotta be available. Be a good mom. Yeah. To be a good mom. That means you also need to be always available and do all the things and do fun things with them too. And make sure you're present and make sure you're doing everything with them and make sure they know that you care. And then also be a good wife. And that means do everything for your husband. Make sure he's taking care of, make sure he knows you love him. If he wants you to do something, you have to do it. Make sure you're there for everybody. And then if your friends need stuff, do stuff for your friends. Be there for them. Be always present, be everything. And you do all these things for everybody else because you think it's what you're supposed to do and you lose yourself. Skin it completely till all of a sudden you are so broken. Like you were saying, it's a mental burnout, mental and emotional and physical. And you're like, what of this am I doing for myself? And you try to justify, you're like I'm doing it so that I'm a good mom and a good wife, and a good worker, and a good friend and a good person, and I'm doing this so that they will like me so that they will appreciate me so that I am needed and I'm important, whatever the reason is. But we lose ourselves in all of it, and it's so hard to then find yourself and come back.

Kelly: 10:35

Yeah. And that was really the breaking point for me at the end of the year. I took, I had some, vacation time that was not gonna roll over into the new year. And so I took a few days off around Christmas and those five days just really helped me and the timing of course, as we were heading into the new year. And just reflecting on 2024, helped me to be like, okay. These last few days were exactly what I needed. I, we didn't do anything for the holidays. We didn't go out of town. We didn't have family in town. And it was so nice

Kristen: 11:10

refreshing because

Kelly: 11:12

we, yeah. Yeah. And apart from just the day to day, we had a really crazy year last year. Our schedule was so full, we, every single month, except for January and July, we either traveled out of town or we had company come into town and stay with us. And so it just was a lot. And so I had a breaking point and I finally I had to just kinda, I was in bed one night thinking about my day and I was like, I'm doing all of these things, like trying, I. To be a better employee and a better mom and a better wife. But I, when I stopped and really thought about it, I was like, I'm actually not being a good mom right now, not being a good wife, because let me tell you, I was moody. Oh, yeah. And it took I didn't realize it at first, you go through like a season where you're just, and you blame everything else. But then I had to stop and I'm like, oh, wait, this is me. I am not a nice person right now. I'm not being like, I'm, I was snapping. Yeah. I was snapping at my son, I was snapping at my husband frustrated with myself for different things. And that, that was when I realized okay, I've gotta, I've gotta make some changes because in my. Chaotic chase to be better. I'm actually being a terrible version Yes. Of myself, for my family, and I am not showing up for them with grace and patience. And that's just really hard to do when you start your day in a mental frenzy. And you stay on that level all day long and you just go one day after another like that.

Kristen: 13:06

So what does slowing down mean to you?

Kelly: 13:12

Just some practical things that I've put into play is I've started my days earlier, which like may sound kind of counterintuitive to slowing down, but because in my head I'm like, oh, let me slow down. Like I'll just sleep in No. We still all have, a lot of responsibilities to get through in a day and just a lot of life to take care of. And so for me, that looked like getting up earlier. And I'm not a morning person. Me neither at all.

Kristen: 13:43

That sounds terrible. I'm gonna listen to your idea bar right now. I'm like, Ugh, I don't wanna do that, but continue. Let me see how it works.

Kelly: 13:50

Yeah. And when I first told myself that. I'm like, I need to get up earlier. So that I'm not feeling the need to rush through breakfast or not even eating anything. I just need to start a little earlier. And so for me what that has looked like, and it was really hard the first several days, but I've really come to enjoy it and love it. And the past week it didn't play out that way'cause I was fighting off some sickness and so I did let myself sleep in. A lot of days, but what my what I found is working for me is getting up earlier and not crazy. I'm never gonna be the person who wakes up at 4:00 AM to Yeah.

Kristen: 14:31

And then runs three miles and you're like, yeah, I'm ready to start my day. No, thank

Kelly: 14:35

you. That sounds like a run day. I know. And it'll never be my reality. But I am waking up earlier and making a point to not look at my phone. Yes. That's a huge one. And the mental slowdown. Okay. Because whether it was. Reaching for my phone and looking at work emails or not being ready to climb out of bed. And so you end up on a social media app, right? Yeah. And you start scrolling. And so that immediately sets your mind Yes. Into just mental frenzy. And we don't even realize it, we don't realize what that just scrolling does to our brains. It because it is just taking us from one, one thing to another. And your brain is having to do so much, so many like mental gymnastics. Yes. You don't even realize it because we just do it like zombies, right? It's scary. But that was a big one for me. And that can be a hard habit to break. And so something I did was I took my social media apps off of my phone and I only have them on my iPad now. Really? And yes. And that has been a beautiful thing. It's sometimes like a pain.'cause if I do want to post something, then I have to text it to my iPad and then save a photo. But I'm not posting a ton on social media like I used to. Anyways, so it's really not a big deal. But that was just one practical thing I did is I took social media off my phone because I, I'm not carrying my iPad around with me. I don't carry it with me to the store or wherever I go. It's at home and so it's nice being able to get out and not even have access to that.

Kristen: 16:14

Yeah. So it removes the temptation altogether.

Kelly: 16:17

Exactly. Yeah. And so that was one practical thing. I do still have my work emails on my phone because sometimes I just really need that convenience. But so starting my day without. Jumping into mental gymnastics was a huge thing for me. And then just setting up a routine, like what makes you feel good to start your day? And for me, that is getting up and doing my skincare routine. Ooh. And getting ready. And now I work from home. So like I'm not over here putting on, dress pants or even Yeah.

Kristen: 16:51

And a whole glam face. You're like, let me put on my fake lashes now for my zoom call.

Kelly: 16:58

And my company, we rarely use our cameras for our meetings. Which is a beautiful thing, so I just don't feel the need to like. Overdo it, but for me it means not staying in my pajamas all day. Because that makes me feel very unproductive and just like sleepy and lazy. So I do get up and I change out of whatever I slept in usually at a sweatpants and a t-shirt or a sweatshirt Yeah. Or whatever. But that's me getting ready, and so then I have made it a point to eat something. I will not drink my coffee until I've gotten something on my stomach. Wow. Which is actually a good thing for your hormones. Drinking caffeine on an empty stomach is terrible for hormones. I've learned. But that's a different topic.

Kristen: 17:41

That is, I would definitely wanna dive into that one sometime. Maybe that's my problem. So continue. Yeah. And

Kelly: 17:47

I did it for years but I make a point now to eat and I make breakfast for my son and then instead of. Being like, hurry up and eat so we can go start school. I've made it a point to just come down to my office and in my office I have this cozy like reading chair and a little table and lamp. And so I will sit down with my coffee and read my Bible and drink my coffee and just have, it not, I'm not spending an hour doing this.'cause that's not practical for my morning, but I'm just taking that time to just be still. And it, like I said, it wasn't easy to do at first because I would rather just sleep in. But when I realized the impact it was having on the rest of my day of just not starting the morning out in a mental frenzy. It is so worth it, and it's become one of my favorite things. And then another thing that I've had to implement is just developing some I, I don't even really wanna say routines for the household, because routines I think can be rigid. Yeah. And I don't do rigid I'm very go with the flow with certain things. But I would say rhythms. I've tried to develop some rhythms just meaning these things aren't happening at the same time every day, or necessarily even the same day every week, but making just some simple rhythms and habits around the household. Like when I wake up, throw in a load of laundry so that it's going, and at whatever point of my day I can come up and move it to the dryer. I know like working outside the home, that's gonna look different for people. But I found for us, if I can implement just staying on top of some of the household chores throughout the week even on top of just the work schedules and things, it makes the weekend more enjoyable. Because I was finding that I wasn't doing anything productive around the house during the week, and then the weekend would come and I would just have this like mental frenzy of needing to like, reset everything, yes. And do cleaning and so I spend, a whole weekend day doing all of that. And then it's oh, I've got one day left, and then we're back into it again. Yes. And so if you can find just some, and like I said, it's gonna look different for everyone whether you're working outside the home or you're I. Working from home, or maybe you're a stay at home mom or whatever the case may be. Everyone's situation is going to look different. But if you can develop some simple rhythms around the house that you can spread out throughout the week so that it doesn't feel like you're having so much piled on you at one time it, it makes the weekend more

Kristen: 20:41

enjoyable. Yeah. And I think the morning thing you bring up and having the morning routines and starting earlier is huge. Somebody recently told me and he was like, mornings are your time. He said, once you get to work it, how do you say? He was like, do what you wanna do in the morning before you get to work, because then whatever happens at work, you don't know what's gonna happen there. You can't control that, but at least you started your day doing something you enjoy. Whether that's working out or reading a little bit or doing something like you've already done something for you that has prepared you and got you in that mindset. And I don't know that I'm quite there. Like I'm, again, I'm also not the person getting up at four or five in the morning to do a workout. Wish I could be that person. That's not who I am, and that's okay. But I am the person who, I'll get up and get ready for work. And then I have a pretty lengthy commute, so I'll listen to an audiobook or a podcast and that's my time. So at least I'm preparing myself. And if I know it's gonna be a harder day, I've got some playlist of like my, uplifting, pump me up kind of music. And sometimes I'll listen to that. So I do have some of that time in the morning. For me, and I love that you brought up the weekends because I felt our lives were just, everything was so packed. It's okay, work, come home, take the kid to dance, work, come home, take the kid to basketball, work, come home, and and it's every day there was something else. And then weekends, it was the same thing. Okay, now we've got basketball games, now we've got soccer games. Now we've got it was just go. What I found for me is sometimes slowing down. I love how you're like, oh, just staying in my pajamas makes me just feel lazy. That's what I found has helped me a little bit actually, because the weekends, even after whatever activity du jour we had on Saturday, then it's like, all right, let's go do this. Let's run errands, let's do this. It was just like nonstop, like we'd be gone forever and I felt like I had no time. So now, and this isn't every weekend, but there are some times where I'll get up earlier than my husband, my son. I'll take the puppy out and she'll do her thing and then I will just get on the couch and we'll turn on. During Christmas time, it was a Hallmark movie. We would watch a Hallmark movie every Saturday. Or Sunday, whichever day I would do it or just watch something. So it's just me time and I am just still in whatever. I slept in on the couch and I will be there. I don't wanna say all day'cause it is not all day, but it was almost like the reset I needed. They've talked about rotting like you just, I. Gen Z comes up with all these fun things, right? But rotting is basically just like laying around, not getting dressed, not doing anything. Just literally rotting in your own self, right? Yeah. But I have found that has actually helped me, not all the time, let's not get crazy. I'm not like some super lazy person now, but that's, that was my way of slowing down instead of being busy doing, going. And then I was like, I would plan all these social things. So like every weekend, like we've got all the family stuff and then I'm going out with these friends and then I'm doing this. And it was so much, and I felt like I had to do all those things. Like I said earlier, be the good friend, be the good wife, be the good mom. Do all the things for all the people, and to take that time and just sit with me. Was so enjoyable. And then in the evenings too I was trying to read a little bit every night, even if it was just a chapter,'cause I would get tired. I have fallen asleep and I've had my Kindle fall on my face because I fall asleep while I'm reading. But that was me time too. And so it helped me settle my mind, like even if it has been racing through the day with work and family stuff and house stuff and whatever else, being able to take that time in the evening and settle down and lose myself in some other world because it's usually some, rom-com book I'm reading so I can lose myself somewhere else. That was a way for me to slow down also and to make the time for myself and be intentional about it.

Kelly: 24:24

Yeah, definitely. And I've done the same like I was, I said before I was spending Monday through Thursday, I. Committed to something. Whether I was working until I went to sleep or we had sports practice, and then a lot of times we were getting home from that. And once my son went to bed, then I was usually jumping back into work and I would, I felt bad. And so I felt I need to spend time with my husband. Obviously. And so I would just bring my laptop upstairs and work on the couch while he watched a show, because I'm like we're like, we're together. Yeah. We're present. We're at the same place spending time together. But I was just still like in another world and mentally just still going with my day. Yeah. And so since I have set those boundaries and been like, having one good Friday afternoon is not worth this chaos for the week. I have made it a point to. I'm not working at night. Now, there have been some times where I had something I really needed to get done, and I have, but for the most part this year, so far I'm not. And so instead I'm spending my evenings doing something. We, a lot of times after dinner now, we will play a game. Yep. Whether that's a board game or Mario Kart. My son wants to play and then him to switch. And we'll, we might jump on and do something like that, or maybe we're just sitting and reading a book together. Because my son's really getting into chapter books, and so we'll do that sometimes before bed. But then after he goes to bed, my husband and I, we do we have, all of our shows, right? There's a whole list of our shows that we're keeping up with. And so usually we will spend a little time doing that. But sometimes when we're watching the show, I have found a new little hobby for myself that I can do and still be very present with him. And that is, have you seen like the bold, easy, stress-free coloring books?

Kristen: 26:20

I know what coloring books are, but I don't know the specific one you're talking about. So

Kelly: 26:23

like bold and easy coloring books. There's a whole bunch of them on Amazon. Okay. And so I found that I like sitting and coloring with my markers while we watch a show. I love that. And I do it every night. Love. It's just something fun and it's it doesn't require any mental stimulation. It's way more peaceful than scrolling social media. Yes. It's also

Kristen: 26:46

I feel like. Go ahead. No, I was gonna say and it's giving you something to do with your hands.'cause I found like when I'm crafty or I'm doing something with my hands like that, it calms me down. There was one time I was in a meeting for work and it was a video call and I was very frazzled. The day had been just chaos. And I had these stickers, I strawberry shortcake sticker pad at my desk. And I had these little like heart doily things that I was gonna hang up around my office for Valentine's Day. And I was like, oh. Let me use these stickers and put little, scenes on these hearts and they'll be even cuter. I'm still present in the meeting, I'm still contributing to the meeting, but with my hands and my mind, I'm being crafty and I found that that really calmed me down. There's definitely something about, I don't know, the science behind it, so you know, don't like fact check me too hard on this one, but like I really think there's something to it when then your hands are involved in that creative aspect of your brain is triggered that it can let off some of the stress. Again, not a scientist here or a doctor. Yeah, just it makes sense in my experience.

Kelly: 27:48

Yeah, definitely. And like I said, it's much more relaxing than scrolling socials and it also allows you to be more present. Because you can do simple little things like that to unwind, but still be very capable of carrying on conversation. Yes. Whereas before, when I would just sit and either be working or scrolling social media while, quote unquote spending time with my husband. You're not really having like conversations with that.'cause your brain is elsewhere. Yeah. You're like,

Kristen: 28:15

yeah, Uhhuh. Oh yeah. Okay. That's cool. Uhhuh.

Kelly: 28:18

And then you're like, wait, what did you say? Yeah, exactly.

Kristen: 28:21

So Kelly, what are some of the misconceptions about being busy versus being fulfilled?

Kelly: 28:31

Oh, so this is one that. I feel like we had to find balance with after moving. Because where we lived before we, as far as the social life went, we didn't really have one. Other than just seeing our family. And my husband worked a lot back then. Yeah. You did. Sometimes seven days a week. And that was busy in a different way. But when we moved and we really found community here where we're living now. And so I think partly because we had never really had that in our marriage prior where we just didn't have friends to be like, Hey, come over. And so when we did find that, we took it to the extreme and felt like we need to always be like doing things with people. And so we kind lived that way for the first i, a year and a half I would say. Where it was like every Friday night. Yeah. We were having someone over or just because like we now live in a beautiful state with so many things to explore and adventure. We not really in the winter. No. All of the other months of the year, which, we're only like six because we, it's a winter all the time. But no, we were spending like every weekend being like, oh, like we wanna go check out this place. And we wanna go here and we wanna take our son there'cause he is never seen it or, and so it was very easy to get caught up in all of the things we could do. And I had to realize just because we could doesn't mean we should. Yes. It doesn't mean you have to. Yeah. And yes, it's awesome to have friends that can just come over for dinner or a game night or whatever, and we should do those things. We should take time to spend with those people, but we also need to make space for just your family and just ourselves. And so we had to slow it down a bit and stop trying to fill our calendar so much because, yes, it's fun for a while, but then you really just start to get burnout

Kristen: 30:45

and Yeah, it becomes exhausting. That's the word I was gonna use too. It's, and that's why I think like being busy is definitely not the same as being fulfilled because you can be doing all these things and maybe you are getting some things out of them, but when you are having your calendar stacked that much and your time being stretched so thin. It's more like you're losing part of yourself. And like I said, the exhaustion is the only word I can think of. Like mentally and emotionally, and even physically in some aspects. You're just done. And that's what you know to bring up social media. Again, there's so many people I see on there and they're like, oh, they're doing this, they're doing that. And then I start to look at myself and I'm like, should I be doing more? Like we're just staying at home watching tv. Am I supposed to be taking my son to all these cool places so he can experience all these things? And it's like he doesn't want to though. That's not gonna fulfill him. And so I just feel like we're fed this story, whether by media or social media, that you need to be doing all these things and you need to be going all these places and you need to be doing all the things all the time. And it's just, it's not a fulfilling life. That's, it's more, I dunno what the opposite is fulfilling is it's an emptying life. You're not being filled, you're being emptied because of all that you're having to give. And just the go go, yeah. Is just, ugh, I'm getting exhausted just thinking about it. Yeah.

Kelly: 32:07

Yeah. And I found for us, when we were keeping our calendars so full and had just all of these things going on like you said, it, that does not equate with being fulfilled. And it really is true because we were me especially, I can't speak for my husband. I, but I know that he definitely had points where he was like, okay, like we've been doing so much. We, at that point you get to a space just mentally and also physically where you can't show up well for each other. And so in those, probably few and far between moments in those like times of busyness, you're not actually showing up for each other in the way that you should.'cause we would get to the end of our day, or if we happened to have a weekend where we didn't have something planned for both days. Because we spent months where like both of our calendar, both of our weekend days, had right items on the calendar. And we, then when we would get to a place where it was like, oh, we don't have anything to do. We were just so like mentally and ex, like physically drained that. You're not even I didn't even wanna sit and play a game with our son. I'm like, no, I literally just wanna sit and rot. Yes. I don't wanna do anything because I'm not allowing myself to have regular times of nothingness.

Kristen: 33:28

And I also think there's so much pressure for it too, and I don't know if you experience the same'cause you're not working in the office. I know like when it comes to Friday, people will be like, oh, so what are you doing this weekend or Monday? The small talk is oh, so what did you do over the weekend? And you feel like you're supposed to have these things like, oh, I did this and this, or I'm going to do this and that. And it you feel like an idiot. You're like, oh really? I don't have a anything planned. Or on Monday you're like, yeah, we didn't really do a whole lot. You feel bad about that. Like people are like, oh, you must have a really dumb life if you're not busy. But it's again, the busy, fulfilled thing. Sometimes doing nothing or just hanging out around the house. Like you said, game nights. We've been talking about having a movie night. I keep telling my son, we're gonna watch Sonic three. We were finally gonna do it tonight. And he's no, mom, I wanna watch the Thunder game. We're really, we're a basketball family right now too but still that's, yeah, but that's not something, you don't go to work on Monday, you're like, yeah we watched the Oklahoma City Thunder basketball game.'cause unless somebody else cares about that, nobody's gonna care. That's what you did. But for us, that's what we enjoy doing together as a family. Yeah. So why is it hard to set boundaries with friends and family? How do you say no to things or when you're trying to keep your calendar, you said you guys were doing a whole lot with people for a while. How can you get away from that and build some of those boundaries in?

Kelly: 34:47

For one, I think you have to, if what you're used to is just chaos constant go. You have to and it's gonna be a little uncomfortable at first, but you have to be willing to have blank spaces. Yeah. And it understand that like blank spaces on your calendar or. Moments of just nothingness mentally. It doesn't mean that you're lazy or it doesn't mean that you're not, like you said, living a fulfilled life or taking advantage of fun opportunities. But there has to be balance. And it, I think sometimes if, you've got friends or family who are constantly wanting to do things or whatever it might take a, an uncomfortable conversation of Hey, I love you, but we just, we really need some time. We're not gonna be there this weekend because we've just been go and we're tired and we really just need some downtime as a family. And so being able to just stay. Learning to say no, which it's not easy and I struggle with that for sure. But, and something that,

Kristen: 36:03

and something I had a hard time with saying no to things is because I'm the kind of person, like I wanna be invited, even if I don't wanna go to your thing I wanna be included. I wanna be invited. So for me, when somebody would invite me to something and even if I could go and I just didn't want to, or if I couldn't go, I felt like I always had to give an excuse like, oh no, I can't because I have whatever. I felt like that obligation that I had to explain myself, and as I've gotten older and have explored this more, I realized that, what they say no is a complete sentence. So I have tried to be more, oh, thank you so much for including me. Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it this time, or, oh, thank you for thinking of me. I appreciate the invitation, but I can't make it, I don't need to tell them why it's not anybody's business, why I can't. Won't, don't want to. Still being kind about it by saying, thank you, no thank you, kind of thing. And that's something that I've been able to, it's still hard. Like even, when I send a text and I send that, I'm like, oh my gosh, they're gonna hate me. They're gonna be mad at me. They're gonna ask me why they don't. It's cool because nobody else cares about the level that you think they care about it's just getting, it's being able to become more comfortable with your responses to other people.

Kelly: 37:19

Yeah. Yeah. And I also, I know for me, like I, we would get invited to something and if we didn't have another obligation In my head, I'm like, oh, that means we have to go. I don't have an ex, I don't have an excuse not to uhhuh, so that means we need to go to this birthday party, or this or that. And that's really just not reality and it's not a healthy mindset to live with. Sure. There are some things that like yeah, you probably should show up for. But it's okay to not have a, quote unquote reason to not go to something other than just the fact that you just want to stay home.

Kristen: 38:01

Not wanting to go to a thing is a perfectly good reason for not going to that thing.

Kelly: 38:08

Yeah. Yeah. And that's a hard place to get to in your own mind. It was for me, but getting better at it.

Kristen: 38:15

Yeah. So what other boundaries do we need? Do you have you ever struggled with people asking other things and maybe they're overstepping, whether it's inviting you to event or asking you something? Have you found other ways to deal with personal boundaries?

Kelly: 38:34

Yeah. So one thing that comes to mind is for us after moving far away from family, is that I found that I felt like I always needed to be available by phone.

Kristen: 38:51

Oh. To talk. Yeah.

Kelly: 38:52

At any given time or whatever. My family is a big FaceTime family. We hardly just make a normal phone call to each other. Usually we're FaceTiming and that's how we carry on our conversations. Which is fine, but, it can become very excessive, especially when you are the only one in the family that has a kid, right? And so every, everyone just like navigates to that. Like they all wanna just talk to him and they miss him, and I fully understand that. But he, and this is something that just recently I had to bring up and it's not always a fun conversation to have to set boundaries with family or with friends. But I had to have a conversation and just say Hey, I can't always be available to answer the phone. And if I don't answer the phone, I don't need texts saying, why aren't you answering your phone? Where are you? And and so I, I just had to have one of those conversations and I think. It's sometimes we're afraid to set those boundaries because we feel rude or we feel like, we, the last thing you wanna do is hurt a family member or a friend's feelings. Yeah. But I think there is a way to just say, Hey I don't have to be available right now. And I can't always answer because sometimes we're literally like just sitting down for dinner. Or this is our family time because, my husband's at work all day and so when he gets home in the evening for those few hours, like I don't want my son to be like off in another room FaceTiming because that's his time to spend with daddy. Or, and sometimes we do have to just say the hard things. But, say it in a way that like. Just explain it and that's counterintuitive to what you just said about not needing to give people reasons for everything, but I think there are cases where, and those like close family and friend relationships where sometimes you do just have to explain a little bit of the why.

Kristen: 41:05

Oh yeah. For that, I think Totally. I was saying more like if a friend invites me to, a party, and I'm not gonna go, I don't need to give an elaborate, but I think you're exactly right because I think having those boundaries around your time is huge and something I've done without having conversations. But the different focus settings on your phone, like I've got one where I can put it into a focus setting and it'll only let kinda like a me like basically. You and Jeff can call me, mom and dad can call me. Like family can get through, but nobody else can so that I'm not distracted by text or calls from anyone, because otherwise I am like, even if we're having family time, but I get a text from a friend, I'm like, oh, what's say whereas putting my phone using that as a boundary for me, then that helps guard my time too, because I'm not getting specific calls and I think. I've talked about boundaries at work and how I'll only check my email, every three hours and I've let my employees know oh, if you need something outside of those hours, let me know. Like I can go into an email if there's something I need to respond to. So it's kinda the same way. Is letting family or friends know hey, sometimes during these times and these times is my family time and I need to not be available for other things. And yeah, I think that's totally acceptable that you should be able to make those determinations for you, yourself, your family, and sharing those with others so that they can respect the boundaries.

Kelly: 42:31

Yeah, absolutely. And usually when you have that conversation and you just explain the why and help'em understand why you're not gonna be available or why you're not always going to answer your phone most of the time, if. Your family or friends are reasonable. Yeah. They're gonna get it and they're gonna be like, okay. Most of the time it's not that someone's just like trying to bug you or anything, it's just they don't realize

Kristen: 42:57

Yeah. They don't see what you're doing. Then they don't know if you're busy making dinner or you're about to get in the shower or you're driving to Target. They don't know what you're doing.

Kelly: 43:06

Yeah. Yeah. And I, that, that's actually what happened the other day. I was in the shower listening to my music. And it like got cut off because a phone call started coming in. Yeah. And I got out like a couple minutes later and it was a, had a missed call from a family member. And then also a text like in those like two minutes of the call and me not getting outta the shower yet, there was also a text saying, where are you? Yeah. And and I also a lot of times would get phone calls. Or FaceTimes or whatever from family. And if I missed it, I would feel the need to Yes. To explain it. Sorry, I couldn't answer. I'm busy right now. Yes. And so I'm just now starting to come to a place where I'm like, I don't always need to even say why I'm not answering the phone right now. Obviously, if it's an emergency, they're gonna call and then they're gonna call again and they're gonna call again. Yes. And I'm gonna be like, oh, they've called three times, something must be wrong. Or if it was a real emergency, like most likely if I didn't answer my phone, they're gonna then call my husband. And so I've had to realize, if it's an emergency, like we're gonna figure that out pretty quickly. But otherwise, like I don't have to give an account for what I'm doing all of the

Kristen: 44:21

time. I do. I still have a hard time with that. If I have a text and I, or somebody calls or I have a text and don't have text back for a while, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Like it doesn't matter. Like even though texts feel like immediate communication, it doesn't have to be. And, but I always feel guilty about like I, so I can't have my phone where I work. I can't have my cell phone with me. And so I will often feel bad for people who don't know that.'cause then I'm getting out of work and I'm just seeing there a text that they sent six hours ago and I'm just replying and I'm like, I'm sorry I can't have my phone at work again. Nobody needs an explanation, but it's that internal guilt I have that, oh my gosh, I wasn't available for somebody. Oh my gosh, I wasn't. Yeah. It's it's definitely a mental thing and it's not even about the other person. It's about me being able to deal with my own stuff. I think.

Kelly: 45:12

Yeah. Yeah. And it, I think as we get older, it becomes a little easier to realize we don't always have to explain ourselves. But it's still something that I struggle with from time to time.

Kristen: 45:23

And that's a good segue into one of the other topics we wanted to cover about having to explain yourself, because we talked about, talked about how people sometimes feel very forthright to ask questions that are really none of their business. And, it can be anything from, when are you getting married? Or Why aren't you married yet? Or when are you having kids? And then once you have a kid, when are you having your next kid or in the job, you just got a new job. Great. When are you gonna put in for promotion? Or what are you gonna go for your next job? People who have no say in your life, always want to be very involved in your life and asking questions like that. Yeah. Have you experienced things like that? Or, why is it that you feel some of those questions are so loaded?

Kelly: 46:07

Yeah, so the number one thing that comes to mind for me with this is the topic of when are you having kids? Or when are you going to have another? And that, that could be a whole episode in and of itself. But I have found with that question, especially, I think it largely imparts stems from the older generations. One thing being that it, that was just, that was normal yeah. In our grandparents' day or even in our parents' day was to you get married and have kids and then you have more kids and, there's so many things that play into that conversation and why I think it was okay to ask a long time ago versus not so much now. And one of those being just I don't think like the topic of infertility, not to say that it hasn't always been a thing, right? Because obviously infertility goes all the way back to the Bible days and we see stories of that. So it's always been a thing. But in general, I feel like it was not something as struggled with back in our grandparents' day, I think of my grandfather. He was one of six, my grandmother was one of 15. Oh my my other grandfather, I, oh gosh, I can't, I don't even know how many siblings he had, but he had a lot. And back in those days it was very normal to have a lot of kids. And I think without getting super sciencey or maybe conspiracy minded, whatever without getting too much into that, I do think that there are things in our world today that have greatly impacted people's ability to have kids Yeah. Or have multiple kids and things that just. Didn't affect people the way they do now. Our food and just a lot of things. And so I think because it was such a normal thing then that generation still expects that to be normal of us today. And so I found in my circles at church or work or just family friends, that the older generations were always the first to want to know, like as soon as we got married. It was when are you having babies? Yeah. And they say it and it's like they almost think they're being cute. And I'm like, you're really not. Yeah. The thing is, it's like they,

Kristen: 48:38

they think they know more about your family, so we're also a one kid family, but it was by choice. And I feel like people had a harder time than that. Not to take away from the infertility thing.'cause I have a lot of friends that have dealt with that also, but they almost kind of guilt. You're like don't you think he should have a friend? Don't you think you should have more of them? Shouldn't you have another child? Yeah. And but then I see people that have multiple children and they're like, oh, we've gotta get Sally over to ballet and then we've gotta get Johnny to soccer. And then just they're going so many different ways with so many activities and it's just, that seems too much for me and for my husband and I, we wanted to be able to give our son everything. And yes, he probably is spoiled on some accounts, but that was part of by design, because I never wanted to have to say no to him. I didn't wanna have, and I don't mean like we do say no to him, but when it comes to activities, I don't wanna be like, no, you can't play soccer because your sister's an ice skating and your brother's in football. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying that's what people do, but in my mind, for us, it was a conscious choice that we wanted to be able to just have one so that he would have our attention. And we're fine with that. And it's like other people aren't okay with that. Oh, you know what they say about only children? No, what do they say about only children? Please enlighten me. Oh, only children are spoiled. Only children aren't gonna socially develop properly only children. And they try to give you all these things and scare things like, so you know, you really should have another kid. And it's it's just, it's too, people need to mind their own business. That's what I think.

Kelly: 50:02

Yeah. And I've seen that on the flip side too, of, it's. Nothing's ever going to be good enough for people. That's true. Whether you have one, one kid, they're gonna have opinions about that. But then, I, you've got, I've got friends that have, four, five kids and they get comments from the older at the grocery store saying oh, wow. You've got your hands slowly. Yes. And it, or, like the very rude, in my opinion, comment of how to prevent that. As if as if their kids as if any of them are a mistake, yes. And so it happens on both sides of the coin. And it, there's, like I said there, I think there's so many things that play into that conversation and why people think it's okay. Another, thing. I think is that in particularly, and not to say that it's only like older people asking these questions because I've had it from people of all ages.

Kristen: 50:59

But same,

Kelly: 50:59

I do find it more common in people that are a little older than me to ask those questions. And I think part of that too is that topics of infertility, topics of loss were very taboo. Until more recent times when social media started to bring light to that and Right. Had people who were willing to, open up and share their stories. And so I think it was just a topic that so many people never had to stop and think about the repercussions of their questions. Because I can say firsthand, like some of the. Those questions are so painful. And I think it's important for people to realize that what they're seeing as a harmless question, because for whatever reason they think it's their business it actually can impact people in really awful ways. Yeah.

Kristen: 52:03

So how can they maybe reframe their curiosity in a more respectful way? Because I, I do believe that people don't do it maliciously. I don't think there's ever any ill intent when people are asking personal questions like that. I really do believe they are interested in just knowing. And like you said, it's it's almost like a small talk question to so many people. It's just, it's what you do. That's the natural progression of things and they're just being nice and I really don't think they mean it. In a harmful or malicious way. But if they do wanna ask these questions still, are there ways that people can be curious and maybe a less harmful way of asking it?

Kelly: 52:49

Yeah. I think, just if you're curious about someone and their life and what's going on and what they're hoping for or planning I think just reframing. The question for one thing instead of saying like, when are you having kids? Or when's the next one coming along? Which I started getting that question when my son was literally like a few weeks old. Oh,

Kristen: 53:19

same. As soon as I popped him out, they're like, all right, so is it time to start about the next one? I don't even know what I'm doing with this baby right now. Calm your jets there, Brenda, but

Kelly: 53:28

Oh yeah. Same. But I think just like it's okay to wanna have conversations with people and ask questions about their life, but number one, reframe your own mindset to understand that like they don't owe you explanations. Yes. But then also just reframe the questions instead of saying, are you having kids? When are you having'em? Why don't you have them yet? Maybe just ask something like. What are your goals for the future? Or, do you and your husband have a five year plan? Because, for someone who is in the thick of, maybe infertility or, for all, this person may have just had a miscarriage or whatever, and those questions can just feel like daggers. But if you were to reframe that, and like I said, just say something simple what are your what are your future goals? Or what are you guys hoping to do? Yeah. What

Kristen: 54:23

are the dreams you have for your family? Like how

Kelly: 54:26

Yeah. That just, that allows them to. If they want to talk about having kids, then that's a great way for them to open that conversation and say oh, we're hoping to start trying for a baby next year. Yeah. Or whatever, but if they're, maybe they don't want kids. Yeah. Or maybe like they're in Afin financial position where they know that having kids right now just would really not be wise at the moment. Or whatever the case may be, that, a question like that still allows them to carry conversation with you and talk about other things like, oh, like we're hoping to buy a house or we're hoping to move, or whatever the case may be. So I think just coming up with, different ways of carrying a conversation and not just assuming that just'cause someone like, oh, they just got married. That means we need to ask them about their sex life. No

Kristen: 55:27

kidding. You can do it now, so pop the babies out. Yeah. Oh my goodness. We have been on a journey today, journey, going from being busy and slowing down and building personal boundaries, and handling personal questions. What's one thing that you hope listeners take away from this episode?

Kelly: 55:48

I would just say to as hard as it can be, especially in, today's world. Just know that you. Your every day, your routine, your calendar and then even your family dynamics. They don't have to look like the expectations of those around you. Yes. And so knowing that your story and your season is not meant to be the same as everyone around you or it's not meant to be what Grandma Josie thinks it's supposed to be. It's okay. And just removing those pressures of trying to do all the things or have your family look a certain way just because that's what's considered normal. Really what is normal

Kristen: 56:47

Exactly. Because

Kelly: 56:48

that's what I Yeah, go ahead. I was just gonna say, because everyone has things, there's no such thing as a normal family. We all have our things. Yes. And so just be okay with the season that God has placed you in. And yeah, just don't feel like you have to look like everyone else.

Kristen: 57:13

Yeah, I love that. And I would add that, normalizing that doing nothing is doing something like sometimes we have to just sit and not do anything because that's what we need to rebalance ourselves, to refresh ourselves that it's okay to not be busy and going all the time. Because sometimes it's more important to slow down and make the time for yourself. And I say this all the time, more so that I will eventually learn it myself, but self care is not selfish. You have to take care of yourself first so that you can be the best version of yourself to be there for others. And I think that's part of it too, in the slowing down and building boundaries and how you engage with other people too, is just making sure that you are taking care of yourself.

Kelly: 58:00

Yeah. Absolutely. And when we don't have those boundaries in place and we are just living in a frenzy and not slowing down I think it makes it really easy for us to just get our priorities outta whack.

Kristen: 58:15

Yep. And then it's just chaos everywhere. And then you're trying to just keep up and it's just, it's exhausting. Yep. Thanks Kelly. So before we close any final thoughts?

Kelly: 58:30

Oh, I just would encourage everyone as they go throughout their week to find little habits, little things you can implement to your week, to just make things easier. Whether that's a simple little morning routine or something as simple as taking Instagram off of your phone and only looking at it. On your iPad or whatever the case may be. Yeah, just find something simple that you can easily implement to just slow down a little bit and slow your mind down a little bit.

Kristen: 59:04

I love it. I think that's probably something I need to do too and get out of the doom scrolling, so appreciate that advice. All right. Thanks so much, Kelly. We look forward to talking to you again in the future. Yeah, thanks for having me all.