Kristen: 0:36

Hey everybody, welcome back. So excited today to have my friend Dana here and we're gonna be talking about friendship. Hi Dana. Hi Kristin. Oh my gosh, I have been waiting so long to be able to do this one, so I'm super excited. So before we start in getting into the big heavy topic we're talking about, do you wanna give us a quick introduction of who you are?

Dana: 1:02

So I'm Dana, and Kristen and I became friends quite a few years ago. Yes. When our sons were in a playgroup together in the neighborhood that we lived in. That's how we became friends and then we both moved away, but you would come visit me and we've just kept in touch for about, 11 years now. Which has been pretty awesome. So yeah, I'm just really excited to talk to you because I feel like over the years we've had a lot of conversations about friendship and navigating friendships and girl drama and all that stuff. So I am really excited to do this. And also, I wanna say that I love your podcast. Oh. And I'm so excited for you. You are so good. Like you're a natural at this and everything from the episode that you did where you read from your diary. Yes. Just the way you read and speak. It's just so soothing to me. I've been checking like, when's Kristen gonna drop another episode? And all the graphics and just like the production value, how prepared, like I am just super, super happy for you and you're just a natural at this. So I'm really excited for it and I'm happy that you wanted to have me on.

Kristen: 2:08

Oh, thank you so much. And that's such high praise from you because you're like in the industry and you've had podcasts before and I loved it when you had yours. I'm sad that you don't have one anymore, so I love that. You love it. That means so much to me. Thank you so much.

Dana: 2:24

So I actually do have a podcast, but like it's not mine, but the radio show that I'm on. That's true. Yes. We do have a podcast that I am like responsible for promoting it some degree. Yeah, so it's called the Ryan Gorman Show and it's a news radio show that I'm on here in Florida. But we have a podcast that we put out every single day and it's pretty much like it's for everyone. Like anyone can listen to it and relate to it. So we try to keep the news fun and light most of the time and not be too political on one side or the other. So that's like my day job now.

Kristen: 2:56

I do love that. I love the clips you share from it because I'm always watching those. And you're right, I forgot, I was thinking more like you don't just have your personal podcast anymore, but you're right. That's a huge one and it's out there all the time. So yes, people should go listen to that and follow you everywhere because you're fantastic and they should follow you so well, thank

Dana: 3:13

you. You're fantastic too. And we've had a fantastic friendship, I think. So we're excited to talk about this.

Kristen: 3:18

We have, yes. So about that. So we talked about how we met through the playgroup, but do you remember like when we actually met, because I have these vivid memories and I wanna see if we were, remember the same thing.

Dana: 3:31

I do. So I don't remember whose house we were at. Yes. But we were at like a house party. Yes. And we were all sitting like in a circle. And it was one of those awkward kind of things where, you know, as a mom, when you have a new baby and you're trying to put yourself out there to meet new people, you go to this event and you're like, okay, am I gonna click with anyone? Are they gonna like me? And then we somehow ended up talking because I think it was because my daughter lived in DC at the time. And you had also lived in DC and we both knew of the same radio person. Yes. And that's how we hit it off and started talking. Yeah.

Kristen: 4:06

So that's the same memory I have. And it was so funny'cause as we were preparing for this, I'm like, I can't remember her name. Like I remember the living room. I remember what it looked like. She had all these seats around and we were all sitting there and I think we went to Cheesecake Factory before that. I can't remember. That may have been separate events, but I remember in the moms group, like they had all the subgroups of when your kids were born, but there, there was the overall moms group and they're like, let's get together, let's have a mom's night out. And maybe they were separate ones, but there was one in Cheesecake Factory and one where we ended up back at this girl's house. And yes, that's exactly what it was.'cause you were like, oh, I'm Dana, I'm in radio. I'm like, oh my gosh, I wanna be in radio. Like I wanna go to school for broadcast journalism. Ended up just in regular communication arts, but still the same. And then, yes, we found those connections and I was like, oh my gosh, I love this girl. I want to be her friend. And that's when we started hanging out a lot more with the group as a whole and just we had a couple play dates on our own too with just the boys. We went shopping that one time. Remember we had them in the strollers and walked through the entire mall.

Dana: 5:05

Yes, I do remember that. Oh my gosh. And we, and I also remember, and maybe this is getting a little bit ahead of it,'cause it was later on when you were visiting DC when I lived in the DC area. And you came over and we had like a sticker party. Yes. Like a strap of party or No, not strap. It was a planner. It was a planner party. It was a planner party. Yes. And you got me into this planning thing because you're so good at it and so creative. And I was like, I'm gonna make my planner all pretty and I'm gonna get organized. And I went and spent hundreds of dollars on all this planner stuff. And I didn't keep up with it because that's just not me. But I really admire that about you. I'm like, I need to be more like Kristen and have this organized meet pretty planner. And mine turned out to be a fail, but we had a really fun night that night, like playing with stickers like we were 12 years old again.

Kristen: 5:53

It was so fun. It was like an old school slumber party and like we were watching like tv, we had YouTube on or something and we were just sitting and gossiping and building our little planner pages and we were having so much fun. That was one of my favorite memories too. So we had a lot of fun together.

Dana: 6:09

We definitely did.

Kristen: 6:10

So now that we've talked a little bit about our friendship, do you wanna talk about other parts of the friendship? Do we wanna get into the struggles of adult friendship or do we start wanna, wanna start talking first about making friends as an adult and some of our experiences or some of the challenges we've had because we have moved around several times and every time it's like new place, new friends, what are we doing?

Dana: 6:32

Yeah, I know, and it's hard, and I feel like over time I've become a little, I don't wanna say bitter about it because that's not the right word, but a little bit more hesitant about ING people because I think, from there was some experiences in the neighborhood that we lived in, where we first met when the boys were small, where there I feel like I've been blindsided a few times by, let's just be honest, there are some women who, because of their own insecurities or because of their own struggles in their own lives, they will do things that hurt other people or that hurt their friends. Or I've been in situations where, oh my gosh, I can't believe she did that to me. I thought she was my friend. Yes. And so now at this stage I feel like I'm a little bit more cautious about who I open up to. It's almost like dating, like when you wanna put yourself out there and you like fall in love with someone immediately, and then you realize. Maybe there were some red flags I didn't see. And maybe I need to, protect my own heart more before I just go all out and connect. And I feel like you and I, like we had, we made that like instant connection and it turned out to work out. Like you turned out to be a good person. And I think I turned out to be a good person. And we've had a friendship that's lasted all this time, but it doesn't always work that way. I think I try to be a little bit more cautious and I actually, I don't know if you listen to the Mel Robbins podcast occasionally. Yes. She actually,

Kristen: 7:54

she has an adult friend one. She, it's a very good one.

Dana: 7:57

Yes. So I just recently listened to that one and she made some really good points about how, making friends as an adult is more challenging than it was when we were younger. Because you're just at different stages in life. Sometimes you think, you have this close friendship, but your friend will have something else come up in their life that just takes precedence over the friendship. And how you just have to, her saying now is let them, and just let people be who they are and do their own thing. So yeah, there's so much we could talk about. Yeah. I don't know exactly where you wanna start with all of it, there's a lot.

Kristen: 8:26

I like the first thing you brought up about it being like dating, because I do feel like it's like that. Like you're putting yourself out there and when you join these groups, whether it's a mom group or a meetup or some other Facebook event group thing, like you are putting yourself out there and you want, at least for me, like I want friends so badly, I will do whatever. Oh sure, this person, yeah, we can make it work with this person or this person. Yeah. Like me like, and I almost force it like, okay, these are my options. These are the people in this group, so these are the people I have to be friends with. And you maybe change yourself or change things about. Your personality or something to try to fit in this mold. And you mentioned Mel Robbins. Another one that's really good is Brene Brown. And she has shared this thing about the difference of fitting in and belonging and fitting in is where you change something about yourself. So you fit with that group, but belonging is actually, that your purpose of self and that you are there and you actually belong in your space. And it's like that different variation. I see that. And like in the, so let's take for example, the playgroup we were in, we were all there because we had kids the same age. Like they were born between, what was it like August, 2012 till, or, yeah, August, 2012. So like August, 2013 or something. And some of those girls, that's the only thing I had in common with them is we happen to have a child around the same age, but you force it and you're like, yeah, sure, we can make this work. I can work with that. And then after a while you see the cracks because it's not a true friendship. Would you say it's some of the things you've experienced also?

Dana: 9:53

Yeah, definitely. And just speaking about that group in particular, there was, I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit older than a lot of the women were who had kids that age because I was 35 when my son was born. So I know I'm a how I'm like, how much older than you? Five or six years older than you? Five? Yeah, because I was 30 and then Yeah. Yeah. And then there were women who were in, their early twenties Yes. That were in that group too. So even just that alone, I think the things that you have in common with people can be different. I think there's also a maturity level. Yes. That was different. And I can think of one person in particular in the group who, she was very young, insecure. It almost seems to me like the relationship that she was in maybe wasn't the best. And I think she just had a lot of issues that then came out in the group and caused some drama and some heartache for some other people. And so I think, like there, there was some drama and there were things that happened. That really hurt me. And I know that I learned a lot about myself because I reacted to some of it and let my hurt feelings get the best of me. And then I tried to defend myself, and then I end up engaging in some drama with people. Yes. And it was kinda like a a life lesson, like something I learned from that, that maybe I don't always have to react to what people say. I actually think so I'm almost divorced now, but one of the things that my husband and I did to try to save our marriage is we did three years of marriage counseling and it didn't save our marriage. But I learned a lot about myself going through that and how I'm a very emotional person. And I care about people. And when somebody wrongs me or I feel like somebody was talking about me or misunderstood me, I will fight back. I get super upset, super defensive. I want my side to be heard. And that doesn't always fix the problem. Like that doesn't always make things work out in your favor. It actually sometimes would make. Make the problem worse. So I really tried to learn that in marriage counseling. Another thing that I did in between the time that, that we had first met and over the last 10 years, I read the book How To Win Friends and Influence People. Oh, and it's a really old book. But some of this and actually a friend of mine who I used to work with had told me for years to read the book and at one point he was finally like, you just have to read this book. So for anyone who hasn't read it, it's so good. And one of the things that I really took from it is that it's that to win friends and influence people, it's not necessarily about impressing people or it's not about being like, Hey, look at me. Here's why I'm awesome. Here's why you should wanna be my friend. That you can really make an impression on people by asking about them. Yes. By making them feel special, by what you can, give to them by being curious about their lives. And even just something as simple as like remembering somebody's name or thinking about the fact that, when I moved back to this neighborhood, because, for our, for the people listening, I lived here for a while, moved away and moved back eight years later. And when I came back I wanted to create, like a village.'cause I don't plan on moving again. I wanted to create like a village for my son, for myself. And most of the friends that I had made here had moved away. So I went into it with a whole new perspective like. I don't have to be a person who's like looking to get people to like me or who's looking to what can this do for me? I can say I just wanna connect people and hopefully I'll make some friends for myself too. But I could tell because it was right after, it was right as people were starting to go out again after Covid. I planned this, I moved back, I got in the mom group again and I planned a dinner and like 20 people showed up. Oh, wow. And I had, I had only met one of them before 20 people showed up. And I tried to make it a point to ask everyone to what's your story? When did you move here? How old are your kids? What are you, what do you do? What are you looking for? And it's cool because it's been three and a half years And I'm still friends with some of those people that I met that one night. Oh. On that first night. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, so some people have moved away or drifted apart. And also some people who met that night formed their own friendships. And I don't really keep in touch with them anymore. They just have different, we have different, we don't have anything in common, or they gravitated towards different people, but there were a lot of friendships that were formed from that one night. I don't know. I feel good about that. And I think that going into it, like being a little bit older and wiser, I guess I went into it to make friends for myself, but also to try to connect people. And to try to see what I could give and bring to the table for other people as opposed to, I wanna make friends because I need to feel validated and I need to have fun.

Kristen: 14:32

No, and I love that. And I think there's so much truth to all of that because what you put in can be what you get back, but also what you put in is what you're giving towards other people. And I think that's a huge thing. And I do think that comes with age also, because you are not selfish, almost sounds really harsh, but you're not as selfish. Like you're looking more for the bigger picture. Like you even said you were looking like, let me build this connection for my son, for my family. Because yeah, when the boys were little, like we weren't giving, thinking about them making friends because at the beginning they were babies. They were just literally lumps laying there. As they got a little bit older, they would interact some more, but it wasn't about them. It was all about us and how we felt about, and who we were connecting with. But when you're looking more from this angle now with more experience, more maturity, you're able to see, how you're doing it more for. Other people, and I think that's huge. Now, the women that you met that first night, whether you're friends with them or not, were they older this time because I'm curious if the age thing played into the group mentality in this version also.

Dana: 15:36

So I am still one of the oldest, I'm not the oldest within the group of people. And from that dinner, we also ended up starting a bunko group where, I don't know if you know what Bunko is. Explain it for the listeners. Okay, so Bunko is a dice game and the standard is to play with 16 people. It's four teams of four, and every round of the game you rotate. So you play at different people host it every time. And it's a really good social game because first of all, you get together, we usually get together for an hour or so to just chat and talk before we start playing. But then once you're sitting at a table every single round, you rotate and you end up sitting with new different people. So you end up talking to pretty much everyone who's there. And we've been playing that, I started it in February of 2022. And so we just played like our last Bunco, we did a gallon time theme. And so it was three years that we've been playing pretty much every month. We do end up skipping a month here and there if people are busy or whatever. But we play pretty much every month. So many great friendships have been made just from that group. And the way I advertised it was I posted it in the main mom group for the community and then people have joined it from there or sometimes people will come with a friend and then they end up joining too. So it's been really fun for me. And like I mentioned before, I've gone through a divorce over the last year and my family's not here. So it's been the friends that I've met through that group that have really been my support system, which has been really important to.

Kristen: 17:10

And that's awesome. And I think that's another thing too, as you get older, is looking, I don't wanna call it necessarily activity based friendship, but I feel like that's a different way to find people who have a shared interest and you're able to make more friends that way. When I moved to the neighborhood wherein, and we've been here since 2017, now I have started a book club. I think I waited until we've been here maybe. Six months to a year. I can't remember exactly how long we've been, but, and I, same thing, I'd posted it on Nextdoor, I'd posted it on Facebook and I was like, Hey, anybody wanna join a book club?'cause my thought was, I like reading. If I find other people who enjoy reading, we already have a shared interest. It's an activity where it's an independent activity. You read the book alone, but then you come together and discuss it. And like you said, then there's other conversation that happens from that. So I had started that in the first group. We had, I don't know, maybe six people show up. It wasn't a huge thing, but then it got bigger because as more people told their friends about it, then they're joining or they're finding the Facebook group, or they move into the neighborhood. And when they search for Facebook groups, with our community name in it, that pulls up and they're like, oh, this is great. And it was like, it got to a point, it actually almost got too big. Like we were having so many people coming that you weren't even able to really discuss the book because everyone was always just talking about their lives, which was a beautiful thing to see. And I'm actually. Trans transferred it to somebody else. Friends it now because it got so big and then I was going back to grad school and it was a lot for me to handle, but the group is still going and it's so exciting to see building that community that it's still going on, like you said, finding those connections, even if it's not for me, like I didn't get a lot out of it and I did make some friends out of it. Friends I'm still friends with now, but then it's still going on and that other people are still building a community. It's beautiful to see that because it's getting away from just the, I need to have friends. It started as that, but it wasn't even about that. It was about I wanna get to know people in this neighborhood because we have a big neighborhood and like you said, being able to have a support system locally is so good. If you need somebody to pick up a kid or you need somebody to come over and watch your dog. Having community within a community is something that I found to be so beneficial in my old lady age now.

Dana: 19:16

I know. Yeah, no, it's amazing. I love that. And I remember you telling me when you started that book club and it's just, like it's so great not only for what, what it brought to you, but also what it did for other women who were also looking for a sense of community and friendship and all that. So I love that we're connectors.

Kristen: 19:32

Yes, we are connectors for sure. And that's why people love us. I wanted to bring up something else you'd talked about too, about the asking people questions, because this is something I've been doing for years because people like to talk about themselves and if you ask them questions and then you keep asking them more questions, they feel like they had a really good interaction with you.'cause they're like, oh my gosh, Chris and asked all these questions about me. She's so interested. This is really great. And I've been doing that for years. I had a lot of resentment towards it because I felt like I was the one more invested in the friendship than people because I was the one asking the questions, following up with their kids, their life, all their things. And I'd be like, why doesn't anybody care about me? Like all these interactions we have, I'm learning all this stuff about them, but I feel like they don't want to know about me. Is that anything you've seen when you've been building friendships or am I just like the crazy one here?

Dana: 20:26

No, I don't think you're the crazy one at all. And I actually, as you're saying that, I'm thinking to myself, when I initially meet people, I feel like I'm good at it, but I think over time with people that I have established friendships with, sometimes I'm so wrapped up in my own nonsense that when I do talk to someone, I'm like, oh my gosh. And then this happened, and then this happened, and I have this going on. And honestly, I do have a lot of stuff going on in my life right now that I'm dealing with. That's hard. So when I've caught up with friends recently, I feel like I'm just like spouting off and then this, and he's got this and she's got that. And then I have to remind myself like, okay, let me make sure that I ask how they're doing too. And it's not that I don't care, it's just that I have so much that sometimes yes, I feel like I need to do that emotional dumping. And then I feel bad about it. I'm like, I don't need to feel bad about it. So I do sometimes have to be aware of that because I like talk about myself. But. I can totally understand where you're coming from because I have had friendships in the past where I felt like I was the one who was keeping it going. I was the one who was reaching out. I was the one who was trying to make plans. And I feel like the good friendships that I have now are a really good balance. Yeah. Of I reach out, she reaches out, I say, Hey, do you wanna go do this? The other person says, Hey, do you wanna go do this? And it's a really good balance right now. So yeah, that's where I'm at with that.

Kristen: 21:47

Yeah. And I think that's right because, I said I'd felt resentful for a while, but I don't think necessarily those were my people. I think in some aspects they were still the forced friendships because you're right when it's right, like it just clicks and you're not worried about oh, am I texting her too much? Oh, oh look, she wants to do this. It's definitely a more balanced approach I think when you are in the right friendship or the right relationship, like everything just works and you are not as in your head about it. It just naturally happens. And I do I agree with that.

Dana: 22:15

Yeah. I'm just thinking right now about someone who I've known for a couple of years who seem to be struggling with making friends within the group, and she had reached out to me and said and said, I'm wondering, what's going on? I feel like people don't like me. And I ended up going out and having lunch with her, and I was honest with her about some of the things that she had said. That I had heard, like firsthand that she said in front of me that I felt were not nice. Okay. And then I said and then I said, but, I think that can be forgiven. I think, she's just I feel like she just, she says what's on her mind without thinking sometimes. And you know how like we'll have a private, we could have a private conversation and maybe say something that we wouldn't say in a group setting. Yeah. Let everybody talk a little bit of trash here and there. Sure. We all do it. And if we say that we don't, we're totally lying to ourselves. So we all do it. But you don't do it in a big group of people. So I feel like sometimes the filter isn't there. I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. So anyway, we go out, we have this lunch. She seems to be very receptive to what I say and take it to heart. And then, after that I felt like maybe I should make more of an effort to be a friend to her. And I would reach out and try to say like, how are you feeling? How's this going? How's that? And I found that. Over time my efforts just weren't reciprocated in that way. I'll get a text if she has a question for me or if she's frustrated, but the amount of effort that I felt like she wanted to put in to keep up that connection with me, it just wasn't there. And I feel like I've tried enough with this person. I don't have anything against her. I like her. I still consider her a friend. I'll spend time with her if, it happens. But you get to a point where you're like, there's only so much I can do for you, and there's only so much time that I can put in and effort I can make when the friendship just isn't gonna be reciprocated. So I don't know why that just popped into my head. I guess when we were talking about, feeling like you're putting in more effort.

Kristen: 24:15

I think that's a perfect example of it too, is that, like I'm saying, you know when it's right, it just clicks and your example is, like I tried with her, first of all, applaud you for being honest with her because I think that's something that needs to be done more. When people want feedback, we should be able to give it to them in an open and honest way to help them be better about it. So I think that's awesome that you even shared that with her to begin with and made the effort with her. And I do think sometimes that, things just aren't meant to be, but you put the work in. But I would bring this question up because I have seen similar things like that where I'm friends with somebody and it just fades away or fizzles and it's not anybody's fault, like you're putting it in, but it's just not working. You're not getting there. So what advice do you have for people who may be in that stage where they're trying to make a friendship work, but it's just, it's not working and it's not anybody's fault. How can people deal with situations like that?

Dana: 25:06

Should I just quote Male Robbins and say, let them Yeah. And done. Yeah. No, and it's frustrating because sometimes it can be really hurtful, when you think that may, and maybe it's a situation where you feel like you found the one yes, you found this is gonna be my bestie. We're getting close to each other, and then for whatever reason they're not making the effort. It could be something, that you did or something that, that rubbed them the wrong way, but most likely it's probably just, we all have so much stuff going on in our lives that I feel like a lot of times we have to make like a conscious effort to make our friendship a priority because when you have work, a husband, or a relationship the rest of your family, and of course kids like, those are four things. I feel like that a lot of times have to come before your friendship, and so people just get pulled in so many different directions. That when a friendship seems to be going in a, in the right direction and then it's not working out, or they cancel plans all the time, or they're not texting you back, most likely it's not anything to do with you. Most likely it's just that this person just doesn't have the capacity to maintain their friendship anymore. And that's when I feel like, you let them cut your losses, try not to take it to heart, and then you go and try to meet some new people or focus on another friend. Maybe there's somebody who's been inviting you to do stuff and you've not given them the cold shoulder, but maybe not put in the effort with that person who's really trying to reach out to you. And you can shift your focus and put in the effort with someone who's trying to put in the effort with you.

Kristen: 26:41

Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I do agree with you because I've found, even there's times where I'm busy and I'm like, did I even talk to this person this week? Like when was the last time I reached out?'cause we get so busy with our own stuff and like you said, keeping up with all the work stuff, the family stuff. You want friends to be a priority, but sometimes it just can't be because of everything else going on. And so it really is an intentional effort to make sure you're making that contact and reaching out. And if it's not reciprocated, you're right. Don't take it personally. And that's something I still struggle with.'cause I take everything personally. I'm like, oh my gosh, she didn't text me back. She must be mad at me. Or, oh my gosh, she only said okay. She must be mad at me. Like I, I'm getting better. But it has been a struggle for years of I just think everybody hates me and everybody's mad at me and whatever. So we're working on that.

Dana: 27:27

And so with the whole idea of feeling like, oh, she doesn't like me. Oh this, oh, that. I, one of the things that we've dealt with in this big friend group with the Bunko people and the people just from the mom group in general that I've spent a lot of time with, is that now the group is so big, I would say there's probably about 50 or 60 women that are in this group that have come through, played Bunko, gone to the social events. Some of them I know pretty well. Some of them I barely know, or some of them I haven't even met. But they're, they've become part of the other groups that have broken off. And, we'll all get together to play bunko. There's a lot of birthday celebrations where you'll have kind of a big birthday gathering, but then there's just groups where, people break off and they do their own thing in like a smaller group. And what starts to happen is. When you've got 20 or 30 people who are all friends with each other

Kristen: 28:22

You

Dana: 28:22

can't invite everyone to everything. You just can't, you can't make plans on a night that everyone's gonna be able to go to your birthday party. Yep. So what's happened recently is that I really had to learn, and I know some of the other women are struggling with it too, that if I see that these six people went out to a concert together, or if these other eight people went to dinner together, or if these two people just went out to just the two of them, that I can't feel like I was excluded. Because it's not intentional. We went out last night and there were four of us and we're friends with, other people that had asked us to do something else and we were like, oh my gosh, we have these plans. And we didn't leave anybody out intentionally. We just were like, let's the four of us just go do this and keep it small. And so it's you have to, not be sensitive to that. And there are some people who I feel like really struggle with that. And feel like they've been excluded. There's a group that all plays pickleball. I don't play pickleball and a bunch of other people don't play pickleball, but the women who play pickleball, they all do things together and we're still friends with them. We do other things with them, but then they have their own pickleball thing. And I think that's been hard for some of the friends who see them all together and they're like why wasn't I invited? And there's one reason because you don't play pickleball with them. Yes. It's a pickleball. And so it's great to have this really big group in this support system. Like one of my good friends just went through a real, her family just went through something really difficult and the group came together to make meals for her and to do all these great things for her. And it was widespread how everybody just wanted to do that. And it's so great to have that village. But then on the other side, you have it where, when there is such a big group that also can come with issues where people feel excluded or, have to struggle with maintaining, their confidence that it's not personal, that I wasn't invited to that particular thing.

Kristen: 30:17

I think social media makes it more in your face too, because when people hanging out, normally if you didn't have social media, you wouldn't know who was hanging out unless you actually saw them in real life. But social media, you see it and you're like, oh, they're all hanging out and they're hanging out without me. But to your point, yes, there, somebody could be like off at a constant, you're like, oh, they didn't invite me. Do you like that music? Would you have gone? No. That's why they didn't invite you. But for some people that is still hard, right? Because they want to be included in everything. The meme that went around a few years ago, it was like, I'm not gonna go, but I still wanna be invited. Or something like that. Exactly. And it's, people just want be included. And it can be hard, especially, until you get that through your head that it's not personal. It's not because they don't want to invite me. It could be a space thing. It could be a time thing. It could be an activity thing. But we get so in our head sometimes that it's just, we make it about ourselves because the world revolves around us. We are the main character in our movie. So we take everything that way. And I think that's a huge thing to be able to get past that, especially in friendships and to not be so focused on yourself, but to be open about other experiences,

Dana: 31:21

and I think it also can just be something as simple as when you have a big group together, if you try to do a big group dinner, it's a pain to make reservations. Yes. You end up only talking to. The three people that are sitting right near you at the table anyway. So if you've got 20 people at a dinner, you're not gonna end up really talking to all 20 of them anyway. So what's wrong with having a smaller little gathering? And then you can, then you'll end up getting together with different people the next time. And I think the best conversations that I've had or the times where I've really connected with people is more of a one-on-one. Yes. Or where there's only three or four people together. That's when you can really have like deeper conversations, really get to know people more and everybody can share something when you're out in a big group of 20 people, it's more like small talk. And it's just, it just makes it harder to communicate. So I think, definitely having a smaller gathering is not ever to intentionally leave certain people out. It's more to just be able to create those bonds and enjoy like a smaller little gathering with people.

Kristen: 32:27

Yeah. Because the bigger it gets then, depending on who you're sitting by and then I start worrying like is having a good time? Oh, over at the end of the table looks like nobody's talking to her. But I can't do anything'cause I'm here in the middle and it's just, it's a whole thing. And you're right, I find I do better one-on-one or like in small groups of three or four because like you said, it's easier to open up. We have, and there's two girlfriends of mine and we go out to sushi every month with a little sushi squad. Sometimes we go hiking and then we go to sushi. It's a great time. And we've posted on Facebook when we've gone out and people are like, oh my gosh, I would love to go. Oh, I love sushi. That's great. We all love sushi. Sure, you should all come. But it's so hard, like the three of us just finding one day a month where just the three of us can go together is hard. Nevermind navigating like 17 people who all wanna go eat sushi with us. So we talked about it last month and we're like, look, here's what we're gonna do. All these people wanna be a part of it, that's fine. We don't want to exclude anyone. We are gonna find the date that we are going for sushi and we will put it out this is where we're going to sushi. This is when we're going to sushi. Feel free to come by. So it's it's almost like an open invitation, but at the same time, we know the three of us are still gonna be there. People wanna come grab a table near us, we'll say hello, the little niceties, hang out with them kind of in smaller pieces rather than trying to get a reservation. Because then also then there's some restaurants where oh, we can only split your bill three ways. Cool, there's 18 of us. What are you gonna do with that? So it's right. Oh yeah, that's a

Dana: 33:52

pain too. Yeah, we actually went to we had a birthday dinner with 11 people last weekend, and when I made the reservation and I said we were gonna be separate checks and then they didn't end up splitting the bill. And so it was a disaster. Yes. Trying to figure it all out. And finally we ended up just asking the woman Hey, you gotta split this for us because we don't wanna end up bickering over it. And it just was gonna turn into a nightmare. Yeah. That can be a problem too. Now, one of the other things I was hoping that we would touch on a little bit is friendships where you get stabbed in the back. Oh, yes. Have you had that happen to you? And how to handle it? Yes, because I. I've had this happen to me many times. And like I said at the beginning of the podcast, there were times where I handled that very poorly. And I had a situation not too long ago where I was blindsided by what someone did. It was one of those things where you get to trust someone and you really feel like this person has my back. And when it becomes clear that no, they actually don't. You're like, oh my gosh. And so that happened to me and I had to just cut it off and I tried, to do it as nicely as possible. And then I got a little heated and it got a little ugly. But then after that I just said, look, like we need to just agree to disagree, but I'm not, I can't. You hurt me. This is what happened. And she was hurt too. And then it was like, let's just tell the truth. And I, it took almost a year and a half before this person would let it go. Really? And I was like. I'm done with this. Like I can be civil, like I'm done with this. And it would get back to me that this person did not wanna let bygones be bygones. And so I feel like I did the best I could to, I tried really hard to let it go when we would have groups get togethers. I did not talk about this person. We had mutual friends and I just really didn't want to keep it going. But it was so hard because I was just like, oh my gosh, why is this coming up again? And I, and then, now that everything has is in the past, I feel like even though it seemed like some people maybe, took her side or heard her side of the story and didn't hear mine now I feel like this person's true colors. Have shown to other people who now see what I saw a couple years ago, and I, it just made me feel like vindicated in a way. And I can be proud of myself that I could have gone around and saying all kinds of stuff and doing, yes. I could have not taken the high road.

Kristen: 36:39

So yes, I do think taking the higher road is the better way and you probably did the right thing. Not probably like I believe not even knowing the situation you did the right thing, because I think that goes back to the maturity level also. So I've had similar things where maybe not huge backstabbing, but enough where you think you are in with a certain person or a certain group. You're like, yeah, these are my people, these are my friends. You're doing life together and then something happens and you're like. Wait a minute, that's not what I expected. What's happening And for me anyway, I was like, am I the one the wrong, are they the one the wrong? What's going on? And then it was a whole thing. And like you just, I felt really broken from it for a while too. And, but like you said, like I, I took the high road, like I wasn't talking about it. If it came up with other mutual friends, I'm like, oh yeah, we're not really friends anymore. Just kinda let it go.'cause I didn't want to bring up whoever was in the wrong, I think, looking back now, there were probably both of us had parts to do with it, but trying to not talk about it and just let it go. But it, I don't know. It's just, it's so hard. Like friendship breakups, I think on some aspects are almost harder than relationship breakups. Especially if you don't have a reason in a relationship breakup, it's I don't wanna be with you anymore. We're breaking up. This is the reason. Whatever. There's like usually like some kind of break, even if you try to be friends after, relationships are still over. But friendships, I feel like there's not usually a hard break. And if there is then it's very clear. But some of these ones that kind of have mushy breaks oh, she's mad at me, or I'm mad at her, or This happened, I feel like it's not as clear. And I don't know if there's a right or wrong way to really handle them. Because friendships are just so much different than relationships in many aspects.

Dana: 38:26

It really is. And I also think that sometimes with a friendship we're not as likely to try to work it out. Or to just say, Hey, you really this is what happened. To deal with your feelings in a respectful and healthy way. It's easier, I think, especially with friendships for women to just be like, oh she tick me off and I'm just not gonna talk to her. Oh, she tick me off so I'm gonna be passive aggressive. Yes. Or, oh, she tick me off so I'm gonna go and complain about her to all these other friends and, stir the pot. Until it, spirals outta control or turn people against her, or I wanna vent about my side of the story to other people instead of going directly to the person and saying, Hey, here's why I am upset with you. Or Here's what happened that I'm not happy about. I feel like I was left out, or I feel like you didn't take my feelings into consideration, or, I feel like you would've been there for me on this, or whatever the problem is. I feel like a lot of times we don't do that in friendships. It's just, oh, she picked me off and I. I'm just gonna be mad about it. And the friendship instead of handling it in like the way where you treat the other person with respect and try to work it out.

Kristen: 39:36

And in an environment that we're in, again, social media or even regular media where it's almost like you're taught to take sides. Like even think back to Laguna Beach time, right? Like you are either team Kristen or you with team LC, like there was no middle ground. And I feel like that we have embraced that almost as women, as part of our personality, that you can't see both sides of the story. You're either on her side or you're on my side. Pick your side and that Yes. When something goes wrong. Women will often go and try to rally the troops and gather their team so that they can fight the injustice that was done towards them without actually looking at the big picture and what's going on. It's like even when we get mature, and I do think as we get older it goes away a little bit, but I still think that it is deep inside us sometime, and even a little bit of that mean girl mentality where, almost like we have to get our team with us so that we are in the right, even if we're not

Dana: 40:30

Right. And it's hard not to do that. I struggled with that a lot with this situation that happened, a couple of years ago where I had my close friends who I, who I knew, like they knew the situation. Some of them were actually involved in it and who I could vent to talk to about it. But I lost sleep over this situation for a long time and felt like. Everybody's talking about me. Nobody likes me because of her. And then I'm like, but I gotta just keep my mouth shut. And, people continued to come to my events and to spend time with me and hang out with me, and we would have a good time, and I wouldn't bring it up at all. And I think that ended up, working out in my favor, but it was really hard to not wanna tell my side of the story to everyone because I felt like I was so wronged. But, again, in the long run, it ended up working out. And I try to, I also tried to have compassion for the other person because I feel like there's obviously things that she's struggling with that caused her to act this way. And even though the way that I handled it wasn't a hundred percent I definitely could have kept my cool a little bit more, but I feel like I, I let it build up and build up. I finally said something, it didn't go my way. I got mad. I just told her exactly how I felt. And then after that I apologized and said, Hey, I want peace. Peace did not happen for a long time. Yeah. Because I think some people just are insecure and they hold onto things, but it's, it just, it's hard. And then it made it hard for a number of women who were friends with both of us. For them to navigate it, for them to spend time with me, probably wondering did she really do this? Yeah. And wanting to maintain a friendship with me and then maintaining a friendship with her where I believe that she continued to talk about it quite a bit. And, just feeling like they had to pick a side. Even though I said nobody asked to take my side, I just want peace. But I feel like it did put a lot of people in bad situations. And then for those people who were having an event, then they have to navigate. And this has happened quite a bit, not just with this one situation. But now there's some other situations. Some women are fighting over politics right now within the group because she voted for this person or whatever. And so now that's become an issue where you had this whole big group that could all get together and have fun, and now you've got certain personalities that don't me mesh with each other. And people feeling like they've got choose if I invite her, then I can't invite her. And it just creates a big mess. When people have issues with each other and it's really hard to navigate that. And that's why I almost feel like keeping your circle a little bit smaller Yeah. Might actually not be the worst thing. Like you're never gonna be able to be friends with everyone. This idea that you can have this big group of 60 or 60 or a hundred women that are all friends with each other. Like it is never going to happen. So keeping your circle small and just learning. Now I think I know who I can trust with this group, like I've gotten to know people enough to know who's just got a good heart, who wants to stay out of the nonsense? Who wants to just be a good person and have a good time and just go out and have fun and who the people are that maybe are gonna talk a little bit of trash or who are gonna have you tell them something and they're gonna go tell somebody else when they really shouldn't be doing that. So I think it's taken a couple of years, but I finally can see that it's not that I don't like these people, it's just that you tend to realize the personality types.

Kristen: 43:55

And

Dana: 43:55

who your people are and who you can get along with and who's out to maybe stir the pot sometimes.

Kristen: 44:00

Yeah. And I think it's good when you can figure those out because oftentimes people can be so fake and you think that everybody's your friend and you were talking earlier. You're worrying about are they talking about me? Are they saying things? I believe when I moved away from Florida, I'd heard that people were talking about me. And it was really hard because nobody actually knew what had happened or my side of the story, and I wasn't gonna get involved with it. And to hear people who maybe knew bits and pieces or didn't know it all, I'm like, I'm gone. Why are people even still talking about me? It was a weird thing. But I think it goes back to the point you're saying that, everybody has stuff going on their life. And I think some people do it out of the insecurities that they have. I know I've done it when my insecurity was really high. Like I was definitely a mean girl, and I admit it, and I've moved on from it, I hope. But no it's when you get insecure, you try to point out things in other people or shed the light on somebody else or make somebody else look worse than you. So I have to take it that way, that, it's not about me. When people are talking about it that way, there's something going on with them. And I have to remember that. And I think to your point about the smaller circles, I really do think that's it. But I feel like we're fed this false reality that there are huge groups of people and they do life together. And here they are vacationing together and here they are doing this together. And if you don't have this huge group, like you are nothing. And that's something I struggle with. But to your point, I think a lot of that is fake. Either faked or just fake friendships or it's not true. Like I really do find when you get that smaller group and you're able to open up and share your vulnerableness with other people and have them do the same, that's when you really get to the true level of friendships and those are your true friends. It's just a matter of finding who they are in the, in the broad group, finding where those connections are. Yeah. And then building off them.

Dana: 45:47

You just weed the bad apples out, yes. Or not that I should call anyone a bad apple. But you figure out who your people are and I totally agree that so much of what we see on social media is fake as far as, the friends and stuff like that. Sometimes I'll see pictures and I'll be like, wait a minute, I thought they last week they didn't like each other. And, and it's like I, I've definitely had situations where I'll have a bit of a conflict maybe with someone and then we work it out. But sometimes I feel like, yeah. I'm like, they were just, I just heard that they were going at it, or that she's talking about her and she's talking about her, and then all of a sudden they're having lunch together. And everything seems fine. And my hope is that the people that I trust, that I consider my good friends at this point, that they're not doing that with me behind my back. And I really don't think that they are. And I also feel like,'cause I've had some conversations about some of these, like drama situations, I have had conversations we do talk about it, but I feel like we're talking about it more in like a analysis kind of way, or what must be going on here, or like the complexities of trying to navigate it as opposed to just talking trash about people. Or blaming people. You know what I mean? Yeah. I feel like there's there's a difference between trying to figure out how to navigate that type of stuff. And just gossiping for the sake of gossiping, right?

Kristen: 47:10

Yes. Because when you're with your true friends, it's like you're trying to, like you said, analyze or break it down okay, this is the situation. This is what I'm feeling, these are the actions I should take or something. And it's good to have friends to bounce that off of who can help you navigate it, because they also may see it differently than you are.'cause sometimes when you're still too close to a situation, you're like, alright, this is what I think I should do, and this is what I think I should say. But somebody who knows you and the situation and you trust, they could be like, okay, hang on. Let's take a step back. What if you did this instead? And I think having those kind of people as your confidants and as advisors maybe instead of just gossiping with you. I think that you do need those people in your life when it comes to situations Absolutely. That are challenging like this.

Dana: 47:57

Definitely. And one other thing that I wanted to bring up this is just a piece of advice for people who might be listening, don't unfriend people on Facebook, especially if it's because you heard something about someone and you didn't even have the direct issue. I've been unfriended by a couple of people who all of a sudden I just realized we weren't, we're not friends anymore. And this all has to do with stuff that I don't even know what the problem is. But now and it's happened to a few other people too. But now what I feel like has happened is because those people unfriended me. It's like now it's awkward. You know what I mean? Yes. Like you could have whatever kind of beef you have with me if you heard something that you don't like. Some of it may be political, some of it may be because of the situation I mentioned earlier with that person that I'm not friends with anymore. Like whatever the case may be, I'd realize I was unfriended. And now that all this time has passed and things have been mended with certain other situations, now the people who have unfriended me, it's awkward if I see them. Or I feel like maybe they're avoiding me or some other people to say unfriended. And it's what for? What I now they made it awkward. Yes. Like I, I just, you can not like me and still just stay Facebook friends with me so that you don't make it awkward.

Kristen: 49:15

Yes. Because what's even more awkward is after you find out they unfriended you. But then you get a friend request from them.'cause that happened to me and I was like, oh wait, so you unfriended me and now you want to be my friend again? This is interesting, right? There's features. Yeah. That's happened to me too. You can just hide people. You don't have to see their stuff. You can hide them and still keep the Facebook friendship there. So it's not weird for anyone.

Dana: 49:43

Yeah. I just feel like, especially when there are people who unfriended me because of what somebody else said, and now I'm okay with that other person. And now you're still avoiding me and they're still an awkward thing there because you unfriended me and we, I don't even really know exactly why. Yes. So it's just one of those like really weird things where it's not that deep. Like it's not that much feeling you need to unfriend me on Facebook and then make it weird. Yeah. I don't know. And I also think, like there was somebody who who always played bunko with us and then she got upset about something that happened and then she left the group and doesn't wanna come back. And then is upset that she's not included. And I'm like, you got upset about one thing with one person. And you let it all blow up in your face. Yeah. So it's like where you, where when you get involved with a big group of women, you gotta not take things personally. Find your people, be nice to everyone. Yep. And try not to let your emotions get the best of you. And overreact. And I used to be the worst at that. I would get so upset, I'd lash out, I'd comment, I like slip out, I'd unfriend people, I blocked people. I used to, because you witnessed it. I used to get so mad and I just learned over time and after reading that book and doing therapy, I was like. I'm, maybe, I'm not to blame for what initially happened, but my reactions and overreactions end up coming back to bite me in the ass and me fighting and saying, you did this and I'm a good person and I didn't do this to you. And you're a lot like that doesn't work.

Kristen: 51:17

No,

Dana: 51:18

it just doesn't work.

Kristen: 51:19

Now, do you remember our fight, I dunno if I can even call it that. Do you remember when we didn't talk for a while? When we were both in Florida?

Dana: 51:28

Oh, yes, I do remember that. And that was because I flipped out. I think I, I flipped out over something and I don't remember exactly what it was. But I flipped out and then I assumed that nobody wanted to be my friend anymore.

Kristen: 51:43

Yeah. So I can't remember what the event was either, but I remember, oh, I can't even remember how long it was. I remember when we got back together because I was so upset, I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe she's so mad at me. Again, don't know what happened. Can't rehash it. But I remember we were at Lindsay's and I was like Dana's gonna be there and I'm gonna have to see her. And Oh my gosh. And I got there and you were there. And we really weren't talking.'cause again, we weren't talking. And I was like, this is so dumb. And I was so brave that day.'cause I am like one of the most passive people. I don't engage in conflict. I don't do this ever. But I valued our friendship so much that I went up to you. We were like in her little like foyer area. And I was like, yes. Oh, I remember. Yeah, I remember

Dana: 52:26

it. Yeah. And I'm like,

Kristen: 52:26

are you mad at me for something? Or I don't even know exactly what I said, but I came up to you and then like you explained it. And I was like, that's not what happened. And we had a whole talking out and then from there on we were like, oh, okay. And then we were, I mean I still think it took a little while for us to rebuild that friendship'cause it was hard. Like we were both hurt. But then here we are now. That was at least 10 years ago. Longer actually. Oh yeah, that was, yeah.

Dana: 52:51

Yeah. It was probably longer than that because the boys were still like, baby Yeah, baby babies. Yeah. But I do remember that, and I know that, I'm pretty sure what had happened was there was some drama with some, and there were some people in that group that they stirred up a lot of stuff. And I was like, I engaged in it. Like I didn't start it. Yes. But once they got under my skin, I fought back.

Kristen: 53:16

And

Dana: 53:17

I'm pretty sure that somebody started something and I got upset and I fired back and like a comment on in the mom's page or something. I was so mad. And after that happened I felt like you and a few other people didn't wanna be my friend anymore. And I think I was also probably embarrassed. Because I knew that I lost my cool and that I was wrong and then just assumed that you didn't wanna talk to me anymore. And then I totally remember that when you approached me and I remember feeling like relieved after oh my gosh, she doesn't hate me. She still wants to be my friend.

Kristen: 53:53

Yay. But,

Dana: 53:54

I look back and there was some other stuff too that happened, like with some of the other Facebook groups that I ran when I lived here. And I would, I, people would be jerks and I would let them get under my skin. And then I would end up looking like the crazy one, even though I don't think I'm the crazy one. I would just let idiots get under my skin. Yeah. And I've really had to learn over time like how not to do that. And how to just be like, okay, let them, don't take it personal. This is on them, not me. And just try to let it go instead of fighting back all the time.

Kristen: 54:25

Because you can't control other people's actions. The only thing you can control is your reaction. And I think that's the big thing is that it. It's harder because I want to control everybody else's action, and I want to know why they're doing what they're doing, but I don't, and I can't read into it. I just have to accept what people do and then make sure that I'm in control of how I'm responding to it. Like I said, let them

Dana: 54:48

and I want people to do the right thing. Like I want people to be nice to each other. I want people to do the right thing. I want people to be supportive. I want people to show up for each other and just do the right thing. And when I see that people aren't doing that, or if somebody does something wrong to me, I would get so hurt and so mad that I would end up losing my cool completely. Yes. And then that just makes it worse. Yeah. Yeah. Then it snowballs. Then there's

Kristen: 55:14

more issues, and then there's more messes to clean up, and then it's oh my gosh. Yeah.

Dana: 55:19

Yeah. And it never worked. I just reached a point where I'm like trying to defend myself and stomp my feet and throw a fit. It doesn't mean that the other person wasn't initially wrong. But my reaction to it was also wrong and just always made it worse. I'm not perfect. None of us are perfect, but I feel like that was an area where when we first became friends that I really struggled with. And over time I think I've really grown from that. And I try really hard not to let stuff like that get the best of me. Yep. And not to overreact, not to let my feelings be too hurt, or if my feelings are hurt, I'll talk about it one-on-one with a friend that I trust. And work it out instead of throwing a big fit.

Kristen: 56:00

Yeah, because the longer you let things fester too, like to your point of talking about with a friend, because I think you know when your feelings are hurt,'cause they're going to get hurt.'cause like you said, nobody's perfect. People are gonna do things intentionally or unintentionally to hurt you. It's going to happen. But to be able to acknowledge the hurt, like yes, this is hurting my feelings, this is how this action is affecting me. But being able to talk about it and work through it rather than just to, like I said, let it fester and eat at you. And then you become bitter and then you're mean to people. Like it's a whole thing. It's all about being open, whether it's directly with the person who hurt you or with somebody you trust. I think you have to find a way to acknowledge the feelings and find a path to get through it or otherwise just gonna be miserable.

Dana: 56:45

Definitely. Definitely.

Kristen: 56:47

So as we wrap up here, do you have any final stories or final advice you'd wanna share with listeners who may be struggling with adult friendships?

Dana: 56:58

So I will wrap this up by talking about my friend Stacy, who I met, she came out to a dinner that I hosted in November of 2022, I think. And she and I clicked that first night that we met, and then she wanted to go see Titanic when the anniversary of Titanic. Oh yeah. Like they released it in theaters again. And so we ended up going, and this was like my first one-on-one friend date. And I don't even know how many years, like I'd done some group gatherings and stuff like that, but this was like my first one-on-one. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna go out and like with a friend and it's just the two of us. And I have these glasses that were broken that I wear to drive and I drove and I was so embarrassed by the glasses. I was like, my glasses are broken. I've had them since like 1999. Don't make fun of me. And she laughed. Then we're in the movie theater and we're watching Titanic. And at the beginning of Titanic, when they're like showing all the ruins, there was like a pair of broken like glasses that looked just like my glasses. And she like elbows me. She's oh my God, it's your glasses. And she totally made fun of me and I don't know why, but just the fact that that we had that little funny thing. And she like made fun of me and now, it's been a couple of years and we are super, super close. She's so sweet and fun and we check in on each other every day. She's also divorced too. So we're both single. She's the friend that like. She'll be like, do you wanna come over? And I'll go over to my house, literally in like sweatpants? Yes. No makeup to have a glass of wine talk. I ended up just sleeping on her couch a couple of weeks ago because I was tired and had wine, didn't wanna go home. And she's just become like one of like my closest friends. And so for people that, are looking for a friend you can still find friendship even when you're older because we were 46, our birthdays are very close to each other. Oh, wow. So I wanna say we were 45, or we were 45 when we met and became friends. So yeah, now I just feel like she and I will be friends forever. So there's hope if you're out there looking for your person or a really good friend.

Kristen: 59:06

I love that story'cause I do feel like my whole life I've been searching for this one true blue best friend.'cause I had when I was younger and I feel I'm supposed to always have one. And I think that was part of my problem in making friends as an adult, is that I tried to make everyone my best friend. How you said at the beginning it was like dating and you would find somebody and you'd overlook things so you could make it work. And for so long I think I was trying to force. A person, different people along the way.'cause it never worked out to be my best friend. Because even on, again, social media, oh, these are my besties, here's my best. I'm like, where's my bestie? I'm in my thirties now, where's my bestie here? I'm in my forties and I still don't know that I have that one true person, but I have a couple of them which I can rely on for the same thing. Don't care if my house is clean, they can come over. And I think it's, you're right, don't stop looking for friends. Don't stop putting yourself out there. There are still great friends to be out there, to be made. And somebody may need you to be their best friend too. So always put yourself out there and look for friends and build community and connections.'cause that's the best

Dana: 1:00:09

way to do life. One more thing I wanna say about what you just said is that it goes back to what Mel Robbins talked about in her podcast, that distance is a big factor. Yes. And I feel like you and I had a really great friendship and then we both moved away and there was distance, but if we still lived in the same neighborhood I feel like we would've continued to be friends, like closer friends. You know what I mean? Yes. Like we would've continued to have that. And now just because we don't live near each other, we're both busy. We can't do this and have a two hour conversation every day and maintain that. But I still consider you a really good friend, and I'm so glad that we got to do this.

Kristen: 1:00:42

A hundred percent. And I have thought the same thing.'cause even when you were living in Maryland, I would travel for work, I'd go to Virginia and I would always go up and see Dana and we'd do dinner or Yeah, the time I went over, spent the night we had our planner party. Like we were always getting together and still trying to make it work. And we text and I do think sometimes the distance is distant, but agree, I still, count you as a friend. I know I could reach out to you if I needed something. If I were to show up in Florida, I know I could come over and if you ever come to Missouri, you are welcome here. Or we can meet somewhere in the middle. Like I would love to hang out, I know with you again, so let's make that happen. But yes, I think that while distance can maybe affect the level of friendship, I don't think it necessarily takes away from the people who are your friends. And I value your friendship.

Dana: 1:01:29

I value yours too. Thanks for having me on. This is super fun.

Kristen: 1:01:32

No problem. And if anybody wants to follow you, can we know where people can reach out and find you.

Dana: 1:01:38

Yes, so I am on pretty much all social media, Facebook, Instagram. I mostly use Facebook and Instagram at Dana McKay Radio.

Kristen: 1:01:48

That's awesome. I'm sure everybody will reach out to you because you are the best. So thanks so much for joining Dana, and hopefully we'll talk again soon.

Dana: 1:01:57

Yes, definitely. Thanks for having me.